Kurt Merz, B-17G Navigator

My family and I are doing research on my deceased father, Kurt J. Merz. 
Dad was a navigator in the 15th AAF, 97th Bombardment Group, but we do not have information on which squadron he belonged to.

We know only a partial list of the crew members:
Pilot:          Lawrence Moore
Co-Pilot:     Ward A. Rose
Bombardier: Harold Johnson
Navigator:   Kurt J. Merz

We know that the crew (with the exception of the pilot) had to bale out over Hungary due to a suspected fire.  The date of report when the crew went missing was:  4-13-44.  The MACR #4089 shows that the aircraft was not lost, and does not list the squadron number.  Dad and his AAF brothers became POW's of Stalag Luft 3 Sagan.

If anyone out there knew my Dad or any of his crew members, my family and I would be so happy to find out any information.

Thank You,

Mark A. Merz

P.S.  WHEN AND WHERE IS THE NEXT REUNION FOR THE 97th? 

Harry Alsaker (membership)
1308 Jackson
Missoula, MT 59802
Phone: 406-543-5388

Norval Seeley (newsletter)
House Springs, MO
Email: NRSEELEY@SWBELL.NET

Current Pres:
Louis Barwick, Sunrise, FL

Reunion News: Sept. 27th to Oct. 2nd 2005... St. Louis Mo
 
Suggest contact 97th BG Officers.
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions 99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45 M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Mark: Page 165 of the Venit Hora book:

Mission #262, Gyor Wagon Works, Hungary.  13, April, 1944.  Flak at target heavy, slight intensity and inaccurate (MY COMMENT:  I guess "inaccurate" is a relative term if you're the guy who gets shot down over Hungary!!) One A/C received minor flak damage.  25 enemy A/C were driven off by excellent P-38 cover.  Another 10 E/A attacked aggressively.  1 Me-109 destroyed, we had no losses.  A lone B-17, straggler, was observed being attacked by 6 Me-109's.  His fate unknown.  A/C #473 (342nd) caught fire, all the crew, except the pilot bailed out.  He was able to return the A/C to base.  Personnel missing:  2Lt. W.A. Rose: 2 Lt. K.J. Metz; 2Lt H. Johnson; TSgt. J.P. Blanderburg; TSgt N.A. Monace; SSgt. M. Herbert; SSgt. M.C. Floyd; SSgt. R.H. Martin; SSgt  G.W. Adams. 

See my last post in the other thread by Garrett....about the pilot who flew his A/C back after the crew bailed due to an engine/prop vibrating...Wonder if it's the same guy??? Chas. though it was Ploesti, but Hungary is kinda close isn't it? 

I don't see any group or squadron markings, but here's a "473" pic for you.  Maybe your dad's in there navigating??  As far as your research, have you tried vetrecs yet a lot of stuff was burned, but a lot wasn't....  http://www.archives.gov/veterans/evetrecs/index.html  It's easy and it's free too..Also, don't rule out a trip to the National Archives. 

Frank,
Thank you so much for sending the excerpt from Venit Hora, (page 165) detailing the bombing mission over Gyor Wagon Works, Hungary, April 13, 1944.  It was very moving to read about my Dad's last bombing mission and seeing the picture of the B-17G that he navigated just sent chills up my spine!  I now also know Dad's squadron number!  My family is in the process of sending for his military records from the St. Louis office.

Thanks again for your time!
Mark

No problem Mark, glad to help.
I can't be positive that that's your dad's A/C without knowing the rest of the tail number, I'm not that good at this.  Lowell might know.  I've got some cross referenced stuff he sent me at the office, I'll try to check it today. 

Mark:  Further research from Lowell's records show the A/C pictured is "Kissy-Me-Kowboy.  I THOUGHT that A/C was a 414th squadron A/C....Don't know if that was your father's bomber without knowing the rest of the number besides just the last three number.  Another B-17 with the last 3 of "473" was the (not the famous one, I don't think) Yankee Doodle. 

Maybe someone else can help with more info???? Lowell??

Kissy-Me-Kowboy (124473) was a B-17F-10-BO model
Yankee Doodle (229473) was a B-17F-55-BOmodel

Hi Frank,

You are right ....the B-17G that my Dad navigated was one of the newer models with a chin turret.  It was factory painted with no additional paint and unnamed by the crew.  That's what I remember him telling me.   Mark

Mark and Cathy,
 
I'm pretty much stuck at this point..Here's what James Peters has to say on the subject:
 

  The two aircraft were the only two assigned to the 97th with the last
numbers 473, according to Drain's book 5th Wing History of Aircraft Assigned

Jim :-)

 
Did you say your dad said his A/C was plain shiny aluminum, or was it painted?  Also, how many missions did he fly?  He didn't necessarily fly the same A/C all the time.  Just for the heck of it, I'll post a couple pix of the Yankee Doodle, the Yankee Doodle II, and the Kissey-Me-Kowboy.  A couple of them may have been from North Africa......I'm not sure....Maybe Charlie Merlo will weigh in on the subject.....

Note the increase in missions!!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Yankee Doodle was the B-17 that survived a mid-air collision with a Me-109 that almost severed the bomber's tail?  That A/C became the subject of the 414th squadron's patch that consisted of a non-Disney-looking dog riding the horozontal stabilizer, with folded hands ala "A Wing And A Prayer".  Can we infer that the Yankee Doodle then was a 414th A/C?? I'm guessing there were several "Yankee Doodles" in the 97th BG though???
 
Correction....it was the "All American" I was thinking of with the crash:

Mid-air collision.

A mid-air collision on February 1, 1943 between a B-17 and a German fighter over the Tunis dock area became the subject of one of the most famous photographs of World War II. An enemy fighter attacking a 97th Bomb Group formation went out of control, probably with a wounded or dead pilot. It crashed into the lead aircraft of the flight, ripped a wing off the Fortress, and caused it to crash. The enemy fighter then continued its crashing descent into the rear of the fuselage of a Fortress named All American, piloted by Lt. Kendrick R. Bragg, of the 414th Bomb Squadron. When it struck, the fighter broke apart, but left some pieces in the B-17. The left horizontal stabilizer of the Fortress and left elevator were completely torn away. The vertical fin and the rudder had been damaged, the fuselage had been cut approximately two-thirds through, the control cables were severed, and the electrical and oxygen systems were damaged. Although the tail swayed in the breeze, one elevator cable still worked, and the aircraft still flew-miraculously! The aircraft was brought in for an emergency landing and when the ambulance pulled alongside, it was waved off for not a single member of the crew had been injured. No one could believe that the aircraft could still fly in such a condition. The Fortress sat placidly until three men climbed aboard through the door in the fuselage, at which time the rear collapsed. The rugged old bird had done its job.

Hi Frank,

This is Cathy Merz.  I am helping my husband Mark with his research.
Kurt flew 25 missions.  The mission over Hungary (#262) was supposed to be Kurt's last assignment, but we all know the outcome.
Mark recalls his Dad telling him that the B-17G that he flew in was, "plain, shiny aluminum."

I found some interesting information on a website that lists all of the known serial numbers of the B-17G manufactured by Boeing.  What is puzzling to me is that most of the serial numbers are grouped together in sets of two.  The grouping of the serial numbers that could be tied back to A/C #473 (342nd) on 4-13-44 are: 
Boeing 43- 38274 / 43- 38473.

Do you think that it is possible that A/C # 43-38473 of the 97th could be listed under or as A/C # 43-38274 in Drain's 5th Wing History of Aircraft Assigned book?

Thanks for your input!
Cathy

The title and link to Boeing website:

AVIATION ENTHUSIAST CORNER
Museum Aircraft Reference Boeing B-17G 'Flying Fortress'

http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/boeing/b-17g.htm

 

Cathy..... 43-38274  flew with 390th BG..569 BS
             43-38473  flew with 447th BG..708th BS.

Neither one was ever in the 97th BG

I have a copy of Drain's book.  I am not up on Kurt Mertz....did he bail out?

There is a METZ Navigator who was in the 414th and who was MIA at Debrecczon ,Hungary on 2 Jun 1944 on the shuttle run to Russia. ..However, the crew list does not match.  This is the only Metz or Mertz, listed in Drain's book

I can find no record of any aircrew in Drain's book with a Mertz.

I checked the 2nd,97th,99th, 301st and 463 rd for any aircraft crew list for
13 Apr 1944.There were several aircraft lost  that day, however, the crew listing did not match the crewmembers who bailed out with Mertz.

Those BGs had Gyor as the target that day.. The 483rd BG had as a target that day. Brod Yugoslavia M/Y.

Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions 99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45 M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Jim,
Couple questions for you:  Merz is definately mentioned as having bailed out on mission 262.  The MACR lists his A/C as "473".  As far as I can tell, that would only fit "Yankee Doodle" or "Yankee Doodle II", not sure which one.  Any way of finding out the whole tail number of the A/C from that mission? 

Do you know if crews in the 97th BG were required to fly 50 missions that late in the war?  I know they had to fly 50 earlier, as opposed to 25. 
 
Also......If he was close to getting all his missions in, isn't it possible that he was flying with a crew that he normally wouldn't fly with to get another quick mission in?  Was that as common with officers as it was with EM??  That might account for him being on a different A/C then he might normally have crewed. 

Frank....What puzzles me, is that Mertz supposedly bailed out from a B-17 with the chin turret, and yet both 473's in the 97th were "F" models. The "G" serial numbers that had the chin turrets, assigned to the 97th with later serial numbers, do not list a 473 serial number.

As I said, earlier, I checked the other listings of the bomb groups that flew on the 13 Apr 1944 mission....all but the 483rd BG flew to Gyor, and the 483rd flew to the Brod , Yugoslavia, M/Y.

I am  not doubting that he bailed out....just that neither 473's are a "G", with a chin turret. 

Yes, it is possible he flew with a different crew, however, as far as the listing of an aircraft that bailed out the crew, and the pilot returned, Dick Drain, does not show that occuring....I know Drain, and have met him....he spent a week at the archives, compiling his information, and he would have recorded the fact that a crew bailed and the pilot returned.
I.E. this would show in his 5th Wing History of Aircraft Assigned, and for the 97th, there is no such entry, particularly for the two 473s and again, that neither one was a "G", and with the pictures, neither one shows a chin turret. Of the "G"s that WERE assigned to the 97th there is no serial number that ends in 473.

My conclusion  is that while there is no doubt,that he bailed out from 473, there was no 473 "with a chin turret" assigned to the 97th.

That is the reason I checked through the listing of the other Bomb groups that participated in the 13 Apr 1944 mission to Gyor.

None of the other Bomb groups show a "G" serial number that ends in 473.

Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions 99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45 M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Frank and Jim,
Thanks for checking records to research A/C 473 and for raising a few eyebrows.
I have learned something from your recent posts.  I assumed that my Dad flew missions from a plane with a chin turret, because that is what I remember him telling me.  I also assumed that he always flew with the same crew. 

The Venit Hora history of Mission 262/Hungary confirmed that Dad was with his "usual" crew, that fateful day because those are the guys that he spoke of and who he remained in contact with after the war.  I checked the NARA WWII Prisoners of War database, and obtained record details for all of the 97th crew (with the exception of Monace) who went missing on 4-13-44.   Unfortunately, many of the last names in Venit Hora are spelled somewhat different from the NARA records, ie. Metz/Merz, Blanderburg/Blandeburgo, Herbert/Hebert, etc... But what ties them together is the date of report: 4-13-44, the type of organization: 215 (bombardment, heavy) , the parent number 0097 and the area: 75 European Theater/Hungary.

Getting back to A/C 473...I can now assume that Dad was on a B-17F that day when pilot Lawrence Moore ordered the entire crew to bale because a warning light on the instrument panel indicated that the plane was on fire.  Moore flew back safely, the rest of the crew became POWs at Stalag Luft 3 Sagan and Stalag 7A Moosburg.

Mark

I'm at a loss.  I talked to Charlie today, and he said both Yankee Doodles and Kissey-Me were 414th A/C.    I can't rule him out as having bailed from a bare aluminum B-17 with factory chin turret as opposed to a retro fit.....Chas. said the 97th. got their A/C piecmeal.....a few here, a dozen there..... The number is a mystery for sure...

Frank....I can maybe explain this :
 
41-24415 Yankee Doodle II was 414th
41-24473 Kissy-ME-Kowboy was 414th
42-29473 Yankee Doodle was  342nd
 
Does this help ?
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions 99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45 M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Yes Jim, thanks...I got it now.....Can't keep all these numbers and names straight...Never could.....

Frank and Jim,

Thanks to both of you for all of the information and input you have given regarding my research.  I am hoping of course to tie 2nd Lt. Kurt J. Merz / "Metz, Mertz" back to that Lockheed/Vega B-17G 15-VE Fortress 42-97437.  Which leads me to my next question...Do you know of a website where I can search by A/C serial number to find crew member lists?

Today I spoke with Tom Gulley (author of Venit Hora) to register for the 97th BG Reunion in St. Louis, MO.  Tom told me that during his research, he had to look at microfiched documents which were difficult to read...he was very apologetic for the misprint of my Dad's name.  So maybe, just maybe those last three A/C serial numbers were transposed!?!

Did either of you ever travel with the EAA Aviation Foundation B-17 Historical Society?  I once had the experience of a lifetime when I flew in a B-17G during the Heritage Tour 1994.  We took off from Park's College of Engineering and Aviation in Cahokia, Illinois and flew over the St. Louis Arch.  I was able to sit in the navigator position in a peacetime setting.  I thought about all of the wartime crews who did not make it back from bombing missions.  Today, many do not think about the cost of freedom.

Take Care,
Mark