dutchguy
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Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
Hello i am new to this site and i hope someone can help me. i am buiding a 1:35 waco glider almost finished. there are many different photo's of gliders with invasion stripes on the wings but also a lot who do not have these invasion stripes on the wings. was there a difference between some regiment or airborne units like the 82nd or 101st. i found some images from overaselt(82nd) and eindhoven area(101st) with invasion stripes on the wing, but the gliders landed in groesbeek(82nd) do not have these markings only on the side of the carrier. Thank you for you time. kind regards marc the netherlands   overraselt 82...mber 1944 
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jpeters140
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Marc.....I was not there, but, I understood the invasion stripes were used at Normandy...in June 1944...is it possible that the gliders that do not have the invasion stripes were used at MarketgGarden, which did not take place until September 1944, three months later ?
Perhaps it was not necessary to paint the invasion stripes for MarketGarden, as the Allied troops could recognize the shape of the gliders by then.
Jim :-)
James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions 99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45 M/Sgt USAF (Retired)
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dutchguy
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Hello jim
Thank you,that could be a reason why some gliders do not have
these marking because they were build after normandy.
marc
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buckeyeuk
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Marc
the stripes on the top surfaces were ordered removed from July 6 1944; from below the wings from Aug. 19 ( but by Sept. officially) ; removed altogether from Dec. 6. ( but not always complied with as some were still below fuselages at end of war).
Nick
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dutchguy
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Nick
Thank you,this explains the many variations during operation market garden.
Marc
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buckeyeuk
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Marc
I've been looking at photos of Market Garden and also a German propagander film of the operation; although this was 17--25 Sept. there were still many planes and gliders with "full" D-Day stripes right round fuselage and / or wings. This is more than 3 months after they were first applied ( 5 June). They were supposed to be removed to make them less visible on the ground but evidently this was not a priority for this operation.
These include RAF Stirling glider-tugs ( stripes round fuselages), C-47s from the 438TCG ( and their CG-4 gliders) and Horsa gliders landing at Oosterbeek ( my father-in-law was there later with 43 Div.).
Most though seem to have the markings under wings and fuselages only, as ordered.
Nick
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PhilSave
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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I do agree,Marc.You're absolutely right.
Phil
Phil in Bruxelles, Belgium
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dutchguy
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Thanks everyone ,this solves a lot of questions.
Maybey it is also possible that the rules of removing invasions stripes were
different from wich airport the gliders took off.?
Marc
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hans den brok
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Marc, I have not checked my photo collection yet. But it might be difficult to say what happened to the invasion stripes. On the C-47 they were removed as mentioned earlier in this thread. Still, by the end of the war there seem to have been C-47 flying with invasion stripes on the belly. Gliders were picked up and used again. So for the Rhine mission there were gliders with the half invasion stripes as seen in Holland. For Holland there were also gliders without invasion stripes. I have never seen full invasion stripes on US Troop Carrier planes in the Holland operation. The British still had full stripes. The footage mentioned earlier of the 438th seems D-day footage to me, but I have not seen the images. Hans www.airbornetroopcarrier.com
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dutchguy
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Hello
Ive put some images here from the overasselt dropzone 82nd 504 pir.
september 1944.
The glider in the front has no invasion stripes.
The one in the back does have invasion marking on the side .
Marc
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GLIDERMAN1
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Marc, FWIW, in picture of glider serial number (4)340239 was built by Ford, flew from Langar, flown by 441 TCG, serial A-17, carried 13 men (not counting the TC pilot(s)) HQ and HQ Company, 2 Battalion 401, landed on the LZ. Glider was damaged in flight (hole in rudder in photo) and because three of the 13 men were evacuated, probably took small arms fire before or during landing.
On Zebra stripes: they were ordered by authority above TC Group level for all U.S. aircraft, not by air field, etc. and some did not get painted for Market. Some just never got done. On removal: they generally were over painted so there are many photos that show faint signs of stripes on top of fuselage because the over paint faded or was not heavy enough to last.
Charles Day Silent Ones, WWII Invasion Glider Test & Experiment
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hans den brok
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Charlie, Thanks for joining in. I wondered about gliders that were unpacked from the crates after Normandy or even later. These gliders arrived at Squadrons after the big painting-job was done. And I think they did not go out again to paint stripes on the small number of new gliders that arrived at the squadron. Well, just my thinking. I checked some photos and there are gliders with and without invasion stripes on all landing zones used for the 101st and 82nd. Hans www.airbornetroopcarrier.com
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dutchguy
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Hello Hans
Thats correct.
On every landingzone is a mix from no zebra stripes,part zebra just on the side.
and also on the side and beneath the wings.
marc
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hans den brok
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Re:Invasion stripes cg-4a waco gliders during market garden
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Marc, Indeed...and that is not connected with outfit, squadron or group or something like that. At least, not to my knowledge and I doubt if there would be any proof that a certain Squadron flew gliders without stripes. Hans www.airbornetroopcarrier.com
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