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skybear45

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Insignia search - 10/04/2007 03:47:00 PM
Attached is a photo of a flight crew member assigned to the 765thBS/461stBG.

If anyone has a color image or description of the squadron patch on the
flight jacket I would sure appreciate if you posted it

Bob



[image]local://upfiles/13750/5D978D205FF248EDAC9266BCB3FB4EDF.jpg[/image]
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Ken a B24 Fan

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RE: Insignia search - 10/04/2007 05:05:14 PM
Bob:

I don't have a color version of it. Here is a scan of the squadron logo from the original "Liberaiders" newsletter printed in 1945 in Italy.

Ken

[image]local://upfiles/9698/022AA700E7E84F0F9279EAB4B06185F5.gif[/image]
Attached Image(s)
Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy
Ken a B24 Fan

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RE: Insignia search - 10/04/2007 05:08:06 PM
Here is a photo of the 765th BS headquarters sign. I believe I got this photo from the 461st BG website, but I'm not sure.

It's a "Donald Duck" type figure holding a machine gun overhead and a bomb in the other hand. I believe he is wearing a leather flying helmet that has goggles on it. (Actually, it appears to be off and above his head.) I would guess a brown leather flying jacket with fur at the cuffs, collar and bottom.

I have seen an artist's logo depiction of the 765th BS logo as a panther's head. I don't think that was the case. At least not through the war.

Ken

[image]local://upfiles/9698/2406A19F297B495EBC1F7598127E136B.gif[/image]
<message edited by Ken a B24 Fan on 10/04/2007 05:18:31 PM >
Attached Image(s)
Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy
daveblake

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RE: Insignia search - 10/05/2007 08:34:03 AM
I'm not sure if the following is accurate or not but I heard at the 461st reunion last week that the Donald Duck logos were unauthorized and replaced by the Panther head logo by the Army Air Force sometime before the end of the war.
 
I like Donald better!
skybear45

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RE: Insignia search - 10/05/2007 08:52:33 AM
Ken,

In the absence of an actual color patch these two images will do
quite nicely. I can have a gray scale analysis done on the sineage
photo and come up with a close approximation of the actual colors
used on the original art work.

Many thanks Ken for your help with this matter. I am currently working
on Volume IV of my Battle Colors series and would like to include you
in the Acknowledgments as a contributor. Let me know if you would
rather not be listed.

Thanks again for your help.

Bob
skybear45

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RE: Insignia search - 10/05/2007 09:16:13 AM
Dave,

This particular image, even though it features Donald Duck, doesn't
have the look of a Disney generated design. As the war was beginning
to wind down more and more of the peacetime formalities began to
reassert themselves. The AAF ban on the Donald Duck image may
very well have had to do with Army concerns regarding corporate
copyright infringement.

Do you happen to know if the replacement panther design was the
same image officially approved by the U.S.A.F. in 1954? If so, was
this design displayed by the 765thBS prior to V-E Day?

Thanks for your input on this issue.

Bob


daveblake

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RE: Insignia search - 10/05/2007 02:02:46 PM
Bob,
 
I didn't think it was a Disney generated design and I'm sorry I don't know any more details about the Panther head logo. The 461st does have hand painted banners that the "new" squadron logos were painted on canvas. In the case of the 765th, it's the Panther head.
 
Attached is a color version.
 
Dave
 

[image]local://upfiles/9818/58D2D67C6EAF45EDA32CA72769EAB485.jpg[/image]
<message edited by daveblake on 10/05/2007 02:06:09 PM >
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skybear45

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RE: Insignia search - 10/05/2007 03:37:14 PM
Dave,

This is great, it saves me the trouble and expense of having a
gray scale analysis done on the b&w photo.

Let me know if it's okay to add your name to the Acknowledgments
page of Battle Colors Vol.IV. I need to verify if it's alright as some
people opt not to be listed.

Thanks much for your help.
Bob
Ken a B24 Fan

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RE: Insignia search - 10/05/2007 04:18:27 PM
Bob:

Sure, feel free to use my name.

The first copy of the logo was shown in the "Liberaiders" Newspaper published in April of 1945 "Somewhere in Italy" by the bomb group. As you can see the squadron news appeared on the bottom of page 3 and used the logo. Each squadron had their news with the squadron logo included in that section.

Attached is top half of page one that shows the date of publication.

Page 3 bottom is attached to next posting.

Note what looks like a signature on the right lower side of the art, but the coarseness of the screen prevents it from being legible. It is almost certainly someone's creation based on Donald Duck, but not created by Disney.

Ken

[image]local://upfiles/9698/9100650A71BB4CCBB37CE58A7ED08432.gif[/image]
<message edited by Ken a B24 Fan on 10/05/2007 04:21:52 PM >
Attached Image(s)
Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy
Ken a B24 Fan

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RE: Insignia search - 10/05/2007 04:21:29 PM
Here is page 3 showing the 765th logo. So, in April of '45 the BG was still using the "Duck" logo.

A lot of the details changed depending upon who was painting or reproducing the log. There wasn't real strict control over them, so long as it was close.
The jacket fur seems darker in one version, light in another, etc.

Ken

[image]local://upfiles/9698/90D03B0665EE4C95A37E3D51D2C9BFCD.gif[/image]
<message edited by Ken a B24 Fan on 10/05/2007 04:23:33 PM >
Attached Image(s)
Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy
Ken a B24 Fan

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RE: Insignia search - 10/05/2007 04:54:22 PM
For instance:

The 764th BS logo is usually depicted like this drawing my father had someone paint for him while in Italy.

Note there is no color background inside the circle. The bomb burst is red, the bombs green.

Ken

[image]local://upfiles/9698/829AD44DBA674EE09BE17AD48C96913B.gif[/image]
Attached Image(s)
Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy
Ken a B24 Fan

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RE: Insignia search - 10/05/2007 04:57:00 PM
The "Liberaider" newspaper's version. The bomb burst appears yellow with red center burst. (My interpretation.) No color inside the circle.

Ken

[image]local://upfiles/9698/E4FF0BC4EEB649ECB1DC3FE9739BBFE9.gif[/image]
Attached Image(s)
Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy
Ken a B24 Fan

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RE: Insignia search - 10/05/2007 05:01:41 PM
On the 764th BS Headquarters sign, it appears that a light blue (same as the 461st Liberaiders shield on the right of the sign) has been used as a background with yellow stars, inside the darker (red?) circle and the bomb burst is also red. There also appear to be "movement lines" added around the eagle.

So, I don't think anything was cast in stone. A lots was open to interpretation, execution and probably paint on hand.

Ken

[image]local://upfiles/9698/2E5903B7C4B34AFB909C90D146F0A335.gif[/image]
<message edited by Ken a B24 Fan on 10/05/2007 05:05:45 PM >
Attached Image(s)
Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy
skybear45

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RE: Insignia search - 10/06/2007 02:41:08 PM
Ken,

You're right about the 764thBS insignia. In it's approved version
the background area within the disc is in fact white.

I really appreciate you passing along all the jpegs that support the actual
existence of the 765thBS design. One of the biggest problems in researching
these unauthorized wartime images is obtaining indisputable evidence that a
given insignia was in fact in use by the unit in question.

My thanks to both you and Dave for wrapping this one up for me.

Best regards,
Bob
Ken a B24 Fan

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RE: Insignia search - 10/06/2007 09:43:53 PM
You're very welcome Bob. Glad I could help. Let us know when your book comes out.

Just in case, here are the 766th and 767th logos from the same 461st BG newspaper.

The 766th BS

Ken

[image]local://upfiles/9698/B74E63E6F9DC45A382480F2E26087A0E.gif[/image]
<message edited by Ken a B24 Fan on 10/06/2007 09:55:41 PM >
Attached Image(s)
Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy
Ken a B24 Fan

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RE: Insignia search - 10/06/2007 09:56:51 PM
The 767th BG logo.

Ken

[image]local://upfiles/9698/E08CEC2FA32F49CF9AA21D218B561284.gif[/image]
Attached Image(s)
Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy

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