Insignia History??

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skybear45

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Insignia History?? - 09/22/2009 04:29:31 PM ( #1 )
Attached is an image of both insignia associated with the 487thBG(H)
during WWII. Most of us are familiar with the 'Gentlemen From Hell'
patch, but both designs were in fact displayed at one time or another
during the 487th's overseas service with the Eighth USAAF.
 
What I'm trying to establish are the time frames connected with both
of these unofficial images and, if possible, the extent of usage in each case.

Any and all help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.

Bob

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Ivo de Jong

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Re:Insignia History?? - 09/28/2009 03:13:33 PM ( #2 )
- [This post was marked as helpful]
Hello Bob,
'The gentlemen from hell' motto was used briefly during the Group's training days in the US. There is a reference to it in a 'newsletter' like paper issued at Alamogordo. Some individual crewmembers had a patch with the motto painted and wore it on their A-2 jackets, also when flying from Lavenham. An example is one you depicted.
However, the motto never 'stuck' and apart from some individual original crewmembers I never found any other reference to the motto during the period the Group was at Lavenham. However, when the veterans of the Group organized themselves in the 1970's the motto was adapted by their Association (possibly because the 'founding fathers' of the Association were original cadre members of the unit). Many veterans I interviewed vehemently denied the use of the motto during the 1944/1945 period. Interestingly enough, on none of the postwar memorials that were erected by the same association, the motto is used.
Then the 'strength and precision' motto. This was (at least) painted above the bar in the officer's club (see http://www.487thbg.org/Photos/OfficersClub.shtml). I found a variation on this motto in a diary of a crewmember. Perhaps he painted it in his diary when in his barracks, and had to do it 'from memory', as it is obvious the same motto, but the logo varies slightly. I tried to attach a scan but the file is too large.
However, this motto too never 'stuck' and never was formally adopted.
Neither motto for example was used in the immediate post war Group History ('the blue book'), which would seem quite logical if one of them had any meaning to the members of the Group.
 
Interestingly enough this brings me to a third motto/logo. And that is the often overlooked 'winged 487th', a variation on the Eighth Air Force logo.
This logo was used on the cover of the 'blue book', as well as on all post war memorials, such as those in Arlington cemetery and in the Lavenham town square (see http://www.487thbg.org/Photos/487thPlaque.shtml). That it was used at Lavenham during the war as well, is well illustrated in this photo: http://www.487thbg.org/Photos/487RockIts.shtml
 
So, there were three logo's/motto's that were all used to some extent. Neither of them is 'the'
487th Bomb Group motto, but the last one (the 'winged 487th') is the one that was used on the immediate post war Group History, which gives it a 'head start' to the other two.
Hope that this is helpful.
Best regards
Ivo de Jong
 
 
 

 
skybear45

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Re:Insignia History?? - 09/28/2009 04:02:27 PM ( #3 )
Ivo,

Thanks for this excellent follow-up posting.

It doesn't get any better than when background information
can be supported with dated period photographs.

This explains why I, and others, have been unable to locate any
'carved-in-stone' solutions to the 487thBG's wartime insignia issue.

I will pass your posting on to several other researchers who will
be as happy as goats in a grain bin to get this historical overview.

Thanks again.
Bob






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