Info request B-17 42-38131

Lee, I am not sure if this is the story of the the plane you seek.  It was from the 305th BG, 364th BS and was called Bertie Lee.    The mission was 11 April 1944  to Stettin.
 
http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part2/16_michael.html
It has also been discussed here:  The serial number is given as 42-37931.
http://forum.armyairforces.com/B17G-4237931-39Bertie-Lee39-m191506.aspx
 
 

Lee, there is a MACR for 42-37931.  It is number 3818 and it is on fold3.com  It does describe the story as given in the link about part of the crew bailing out and the plane crashing  back in England.     There are some German documents about the capture of the crew members that bailed out and they were  confused too.  They really did not have a plane to match with the crew members captured.  
 
On Joe Baugher's site, he lists 42-37931 with MACR 3818 but only says it was lost on April 11, 1944.
Joe Baugher then has "Bertie Lee" as 42-38131 and gives  the crash landing story for it.  It would appear that Joe Baugher has confused the the story as well.  

Lee, I did a little more checking.
43-38131 (not 42-38131), MACR number 13854, is on Fold3.com  and went into the Zuider Zee on 5 Apr 1945 (not 1944).  It was from the 490th BG,  848th BS.   According to:
http://www.jeannerickey.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/B-17-Serial-Numbers.pdf  and Joe Baugher's site, 
 
parts were recovered in 1971.  This sounds like "part" of the story you had  for 42-38131.  

Lee,
The plane that got lost on a night training flight and ended up in Cottbus was 42-31760, "ICKKY POO",  MACR 10418,  flown by George McVay.  The MACR  is in pieces on fold3.com and misfiled under the <blanks> section.  The plane was from the 95th BG, 334th BS and went missing the night of 6 NOV 44.  It ended up landing on the Cottbus airfield at 6:30am on the 7th, surprising the Germans who did not quite know what to make of it.  Five of the crew were still aboard, the others had parachuted out.  The crew apparently managed to set fire to the plane and it was 80% destroyed.  

http://www.95thbg-horham.com/page282
 
 

Hello all...
 
Lee did contact me by email and I have responded. I really dont understand the references to the replies I shared, and those being assumed as not being conclusive. The answers supplied are taken from records we have here, based on the history of the 305th. I really cannot say more on that.
 
To uphold the information concerning the 305th BG and April 1944 operations. The three Squadrons, 364th-365th-366th, flew daylights missions aside from their 422nd Brothers; the 422nd concentrated on two specific and specialised missions. The flying by night of single plane's to multiple targets, dropping the Monroe Leaflet Bomb and discharging paper propaganda across occupied Europe. The 422nd also flew equal numbers of crews and H2x PFF aircraft, in the role of Leading missions both for the 305th BG and most of the remaining 1st AD groups in the ETO.
 
The question has been posed on B-17 serial 42-38131. From the directory of record for all known B-17's that belonged to and were operated by the 305th, at any time, this serial number does not fall within the register. The records came via author Mike Gibson during the 1980's, and he attained all these from the National Archives. 
 
During the month of April, the three daylight operating Squadrons, 364th-365th-366th, flew between them a total of 14 missions. The first one in April on which the 364th and 366th Sqns only operated, was to Brussels, Belgium - Evre airfield on the 10th of April. All three Squadrons participated the next day, 11th April '44, to Stettin-Trechel Germany. On that 11th April raid, we have two losses; Richard Cooke Jr crew in 42-38149 ''CHIEF COOK AND HIS BOTTLE WASHERS'', and Calvin B. Vance Jr crew in ''HIP-DE-DITTY''. In addition, Ed Michaels crew made it back to crash land at RAF Waltham, Grimsby (Humberside on the east coast) in ''BERTIE LEE'' 42-37931. 24th April '44, mission to Oberpfaffenhofen Germany, airfield, the one loss 42-31816 ''SWINGING DOOR'' (This ship as been mis identified BY SEVERAL as ''V FOR VICTOR'' which is wrong), with the Joseph Lincoln crew 366th Sqn. On the 27th April mission to Nancy/Essey Airfield France, we lost two 364th Squadron ships; 42-39829 with the Lt Robert Copley crew, and, 42-97097 with the Lt. Robert Knight crew.
 
The 305th as an organisation has no record of the aircraft requested, nor any operation it could be connected to for the date suggested.
 
The date of 5th April 1944 has no mission flown by the 305th, not even the 422nd Night Leaflet crews, or, their PFF crews.
 
As far as the 305th are concerned, their records are sound and the aircraft enquired about, sad to report, is not one of ours! 
 
The efforts of Osbourn and Freeman are vast, and should be commended. However, undertaking such a investigation is and has proven to be full of inaccuracies. I am not surprised therefore that confusion has arisen on this one aircraft.
 
I wish you well in tracking down exactly who was the operator of this B-17.
 
Ian White
305th BGMA Group Historian
 

lee8thbuff

Mr. White & All:

I do sincerely appreciate the effort to determine the story of 42-38131. Obviously the Freeman/Osborne data on this aircraft is TOTALLY our of whack in every particular. When I began this search I thought perhaps Freeman/Osborne did at least have the Target correct, but that would have been a 11-APR-44 date. I have definitely settled the 305th losses for the 11-APR-44 mission WITH confirmation from Mr. White, thank you sir.
At present I have NOT been able to allocate 42-38131 to ANY BG including the 305th. The assignment of this aircraft and its fate is presently in LIMBO. I'm hoping that the Aircraft Inventory Card will shed some light on the matter, even though it probably won't give me the unit information. I think it is at least probable that this aircraft may have been salvaged in the UK or after the war in the States. 
I will pursue the matter further with the Air Force Historical Research Agency to see what they have in their records as to the assignment and disposition of this aircraft.
Confirming the veracity of information 68 years after the events is a challenge in any case and in all instances I endeavor to substantiate and/or corroborate the information I include in my database from official documents. Even in the case of official documents some errors persist.
Mr. White, my apologies to you, sir, for not accepting as "conclusive" the fact that this aircraft was NOT included in the inventory of the 305th BG. 
 
Thank you.