Can anyone out there provide me with any info on the tail markings of this B-17?  I believe that Dad took it while stationed at McCook NE.  Thanks

[image]local://upfiles/13425/A64BD9FE76474F3F874552BD3B825598.jpg[/image]

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The B17 was either a B,C,or D model because it didn't have the vertical stabilizer of the E,F and G model. Also note the lower bathtub gun port.
 
During my transition training in Dec 42, I flew in Cs and Ds , but I can't remember if they had ball turrets

Jules Horowitz, B-17 pilot, 99th BG, 50 missions/sorties
My tour was from 7/19/43-2/13/44

It may be   B - 17 D  # 40 - 3088
19th BG Clark Field , Phillipines 10/17/41
Destroyed on Ground 12/8/41
Do you have date of photo - any other info?
Mike

I suspect that the aircraft in the photo was a YB-17 assigned to the Materiel Division at Wright Field, Ohio.

There were TWO fields named McCook...one at McCook Army Air Field ,NE and the other was McCook Field Ohio. (reference Directory of U.S> Army Forts,Camps and Airfields [ 1789-1945] by Tom Kneitel, pp 91).

Here is an excerpt from The Defenders of Liberty 2nd Bombardment Group/Wing 1918-1993. pp 78-78.

In 1937, when the YB-17s went into service with the Group, the only identification, aside from the national insignia, were the individual aircraft plane-in -group numbers, and colored cowl rings---with each color representing a different squadron. The plane-in-group numbers were applied to either side of the vertical fin, top right , and lower left wing tip, and sometimes repeated on the wing leading edge just outboard of the outboard engines.
GHQ Air Force adopted another identification system in December 1937, whcih was effective for all non-training aircraft. This system consisted of a pair of letters. The first idientified the mission, ,ie B for bomber. The second letter identifeid the group,ie, B for the 2nd Bombardment Group, E for the 5th  Bombardment Group, G for 7th Bombardment Group. Hence the 2nd Bombardment group carried the letters for BB for bomber 2nd Group, applied above the numerals on the fin. The individual in-plane number were retained. Sometimes the group identification letters were applied on the wing tips in characters smaller thatn the plane-in-group numbers.

Then in early 1941, GHQ Air Force again changed the marking system to replace the cumbersome letter -numbergroup identification ,to the actual group number. Hence the 2nd Bombardment Group aircraft carried the code 2B on their vertical fins in addition to the plane-in-group numbers.

Appendix 10A shows 36-149 assigned to Materiel Division, Wright Field Ohio.

The other YB-17 numbers show numbers other than the 1 over the BBR, such as 60,80 etc. Therefore I suspect the aircraft in the photo is 36-149, assigned to the Materiel Division, Wright Field Ohio, as the other YB-17s would have carried the BB designation of the 2nd Bombardment Group.

Of course without the photo carrying any ID, it is impossible to say for certain.

Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

scpete
 
I think mike may be right, the mountains in the background look like the upper Wasatch, about Ogden and Brigham city Utah. A lot of the 19th BG (Clark, Philippines) trained at the Ft Douglas Utah bombing range.
 
Here is an earlier version, I think at Hamilton Field, date stamped 1937.
 
Mike

[image]local://upfiles/5184/1EA7BE7E54F94128B7AF30EAF2355AD6.jpg[/image]

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FWIW, my guess would be a D model.  I don't think the Y1B-17s had cowl flaps and the closer ship appears to have them.  It still retains the bathtub lower gun emplacement, but has done away with the airscoop on top of the engines and repalced them with turbochargers.
H

Hugh...On looking closer, I also see in the photo in question, that the waist blister is flat...this came about later also...and in my first observation, I was going by the letters on the fin. In the second photo, there is no marking on the fin...so I am changing my first impression to a later model.
 
I also see the cowl flaps on the aircraft that took the first photo.
 
I have been wrong before and apparently I was in error on my first posting.
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Great photos guys!

Jules: The bathtub gun blister under the B-17 was replaced by the Sperry ball turret. Just flex mounts in the early models.

Ken

Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy

Jim     the tail code is " 88R " , the 88th Recon Sqn. ( H )  later the 436th BS. As you say the letter is the function eg. "P" = Pursuit, "T" = Transport.             Nick

Nick...I received a phone call last evening from a friend who has been researching the early B-17s..and he has arrived at the same conclusion, as you,  that the tail code is in fact 88R, rather than the BBR.
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

The 436th BS was assigned to the 7th Bomb Group.
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Wasn't the 88 Recon Sq. the bunch that went into Pearl that morning of Dec. 7 1941 ?? The 7th was being sent to Clark to reinforce the 19th unless I misremember.
 
Mike

ORIGINAL: mike

Wasn't the 88 Recon Sq. the bunch that went into Pearl that morning of Dec. 7 1941 ?? The 7th was being sent to Clark to reinforce the 19th unless I misremember.

Mike

 
You are correct.  By that time they had converted to E models.
THe A/C in the picture appears to a C model(at least I can't make out any cowl flaps). There's always been some confusion about the lineage of 38th and 88th Recons after Pearl Harbor. The book "Combat Squadrons Of The Air Force-World War II" says that the 88th was redesignated the 436th Bomb Squadron, operating first out of Australia, then out of India with its parent
group the 7th. But most accounts I've read say that B-17Es
and crews from the 38th and 88th in Hawaii were used to form the 14th Recon and were initially based in Fiji under Naval control. They moved to Australia and In March of '42 were assigned to the 19th BG. In April they were redesignated the 40th Recon and once again in May as the 435th Bomb Squadron.  Curiously, the book notes that the 435th BS was formerly the 40th RS.

Thanks all, really great input.  Someone a while back also mentioned the 88th Recon.  If it helps any, Dad was at McCook NE, and Clovis NM around mid '44 until July '45, when he was injured in a crash.  Thanks again everyone for the input, this site is great to tap into the collective knowledge that is out there.
Pete

My second cousin typed up some info for me concerning my father's military service. My father was with the 88th Reconnaissance Squadron (redesignated the 436th Bomb Squadron on April 12, 1942.) My dad was in the 10th Army Air Force, 436th BG, 7th Bomb Group. Stationed in Hawaii, Fieji Island, Australia, Karachi, Allahabad, Gaya, Bishnupur, Panagarh, Madhaiganj, and Tezgaon, India. Below is part of what my cousin wrote.

The 88th Recon Squadron was at Ft. Douglas Utah for training in the B-17 when on December 5, 1941 they departed, with the 7th Bomb Group, for the Philippines with 35 Boeing B-17C bombers. Arriving in San Francisco the group flew to Hamilton Field and departed the next night, December 6 for Hickam Field, Hawaii. The bombers arrived on December 7 during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. A number of the group planes were lust to the Japanese aircraft because they were unarmed at the time. It was impossible for the aircraft to remain for repairs at the bomb shattered Hickam Field, so the 7th Bomb Group with its aircraft departed for Australia leaving the 88th behind for patrol duty.
On February 10, 1942 the 88th and its B-17s flew to Nandi Airport, Fieji Islands and set up operations. The squadron left Fieji on February 18 arriving at Townsville, Australia on February 20, 1942. The 88th joined up with the 7th Bomb Group at Townsville then moved to Karachi India on March 12, 1942. At Karachi the 88th established a camp in a dirigible hanger east of the City. From this point the first mission against the Japanese was flown in Burma on April 12, 1942. From this, on April 22, the 88th was redesignated the 436th Bomb Squadron (Heavey), and part of the 7th Bomb Group.

I have been searching for photos of my dad's group. He was a Dispatcher Clerk of Motor Vehicles, Supply Tech., and Airplane and Engine Mechanic. He was a Corporal.

LCC60
 
I can't imagine you won't find any pictures around. I myself don't have any post Pearl Harbor. 
But you can get a more detailed account of the time from Pearl until they were transfered to India in the book:  
 
Fortress Against the Sun, Gene Slacker, 450 Pages  or (and)
On Wings We Conquer,  John Mitchell,  190 Pages
 
I found the first one is a good reference source ...
 
Mike