Hello everybody!
 
My name is Christian and I'm coming from Austria. About 10 miles away of my hometown is the little rest of the B-17 with the serial number 42-97685.
 
If anyone had known one of the crew members or if any relatives of them are reading this text please contact me.
 
A question: Does anybody know good websites of the 301st BG or the 353th BS?
 
Thank you very much!
 
Best regards to America!
 
Christian Merl

Christian.....Here is the website for the 301st BG.
 
http://www.301bg.com/
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Christian,

you have probably done this already, but you might also want to check out the 301st BG forum here:
http://forum.armyairforces.com/forumid_81/tt.htm
strangely enough I was looking for further information on a B-17 with a serial only two digits different (42-97683) and Lowell Thompson mentioned '685 which he says was named "Stardust"

The topic URL is http://forum.armyairforces.com/m_77871/tm.htm

Rob / Kansan

Christian,
 
The MACR database on this site shows that 42-97685 went down on 25 Nov 1944. The MACR 10108 would give you the crew list and you could then ask the secretary of the 301st Bomb Group Association about possible addresses. The MACR is available by contacting Lynn.Gamma@MAXWELL.AF.MIL and there is no charge.
 
Vic

Hello!

Thanks for your information.

@Kansas: I've seen your post about the B-17 with the serial number 42-97683 and I am in contact with Lowell Thompson. He sent me information about the 301st Bomb Group - I'll send it to you by e-mail - would be kind if you could give me the mailing adress.

@Vic: Thanks for the adress for ordering MACR - I'll contact to get this report!

Has anybody pictures of the B-17 42-97685 "Stardust"?

Best regards,

Christian

I believe that my father may have been the radio operator of the American crew that manned this particular B-17. If this is the same B-17, it was shot down by a German night fighter at 2:40 a.m. on November 25, 1944, near the then-existing border of Austria and Yugoslavia.

According to Dick Drain's 5th Wing History Of Aircraft Assigned :

42-97685   STARDUST   353BS 301st BG   PFF Aircraft. Transfer from 2nd BG 15 May 44. MIA Linz 25 Nov 44. Mechanical failure, crached near Cili. Charles Govatsos crew, Moffet, Moran,Gubitosi, Wildrick, Richards,SPOHN, Swift,Poteet,Roy.  Moran,Gubitiosi, POW, rest evade,return. (MACR 10108)

The MACR 10108 can be obtained by emailing LYNN.GAMMA@maxwell.af.mil  at no charge...expect a possible delay as the section has been downsized.

The MACR will give the home town addresses of the crewmen at the time of the downing, for a start at obtaining the present addresses of any living relatives, and will also give the reason for the loss.
The MACR is generated by any observations of  crewmen of an accompanying aircraft in the formation.
Although, if it was a night mission, the 5th Wing History will give the information that it was a night mission, and the account does not say so.

Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Jim, thanks for the reply.

It is good to hear from you. Please accept my gratitude for risking your life fighting for the freedom that I, and all Americans, now enjoy. It appears that you arrived in Foggia during the month that my father, Sgt. Gus Spohn, was evading capture in Yugoslavia. He bailed out behind enemy lines on November 25, 1944. After spending a month evading capture with the help of the Yugoslav partisans, was evacuated from Yugoslavia back to Foggia by C-47 on December 27, 1944. I don't know if that C-47 crew was ever decorated for flying behind enemy lines and landing in a meadow in Yugoslavia in order to evacuate my father and tail gunner Sgt. William Ray, but I hope so, because I owe my very existence to their bravery.

As you can see from what I have written, there is a lot that I have yet to learn about what happened on this mission, and I am thankful for those, like you, who are willing to help me find more information. What follows is my best estimate as to what happened on this mission, based on the information I have received so far. I certainly could be corrected, and in fact, I would like to be corrected if anyone out there notices any inaccuracies in what I have written.

I received the MACR a few months ago (#10108). The MACR, item 5, says that the aircraft was lost as a result of "enemy aircraft." I am not sure how this MACR was, at some point, misconstrued as an indication that the bomber was lost due to "mechanical failure," but my father told me that his B-17 was shot down by a night fighter while he was on a single-bomber night mission, and the MACR, as well as the documents that were sent to me along with the MACR, support what he told me.

Also, the "Individual Casualty Report" regarding Lt. Govatsos states that "We both agreed that bailout was necessary due to fire [in] #1 engine. He gave the order, I bailed." This report appears to have been drafted by the copilot, Lt. Moffet, regarding the pilot, Lt. Govatsos. Of course, on a very literal level, I guess when an aircraft has a few hundred rounds of 12.5mm Luftwaffe ammunition pumped into the #1 engine, the aircraft would be fairly likely to develop "mechanical failure." :-)

Regarding the time of the crash, the casualty questionnaire of Lt. Govatsos (attached to the MACR) states that the time was "about 3:30 AM." My father's casualty questionnaire says "3:30 AM," and Lt. Moffet's casualty questionnaire says "approx 0430." The figure of "2:40 A.M." that I referenced in my original posting came from my father's personal papers, which included a small notebook in which he kept notes regarding each of his missions. That particular note reads, "Nov 25, 2:40 AM - Attacked by German night fighter - bailed out over Yugoslavia." Considering the circumstances of the occasion, I can forgive the crew's lack of precision regarding the exact time that the B-17 actually crashed. However, there is no question that it was a night mission.

As I mentioned in my first posting, I am not sure if my father's B-17 is the same B-17 that started this thread, but it looks like it very well might be. If it is the same B-17, I would like to travel to Austria to observe the site of the crash, if I can contact Christian. I never cease to be amazed at how men like my father and you flew the extraordinarily dangerous missions that were necessary to win the war. Once again, thank you for your service to our country.

Kurt Spohn

Christian - haven't been able to reach you via email.  I'm the brother of kspohn who posted on this topic as well.  We'd be very interested in potentially travelling to Austria to see what remains of 42-97685, and to share with you the loads of associated memorabilia we're in possession of.  In the meantime, can you give the location of the crash site and it's location relative to your home town in Austria?  Might be fun to take a peek via google earth or some such tool.
 
Thanks very much in advance,
Al Spohn

jpeters and all, if you can provide me the full names of any surviving crewmen i will attempt to locate them.

Jim McCabe
My father, Lt. Mike McCabe(deceased 4/26/05), 307th BG, 424th BS, was a Navigator based at Morotai. Mission dates ranged from 2/20/45-8/1/45.

From the MACR:
 
Govatsos, Charles A.  Pilot  Mrs. Demetra Govatsos (Mother) 39 Cheever St. Milton, Mass.
Moffet, William E.  Copilot Mr. Ernest B. Moffet (Father) 1690 Hillcrest Ave, St. Paul, MN
Moran, Arthur R.  Navigator Mr. William M. Moran (Father) Kinney Street, Ellsworth, WI.
Wildrick, James E. Radar Navigator Mrs. Anna May Wildrick (Wife) 7427 Claridge St., Philadelphia, PA
Gubitosi, Novello A. Bombardier Mrs. Christina Gubitosi (Mother) 1790 Brooklyn Avenue, Brooklyn, NY
Richards, Roger R. Eng. Gunner Mrs. Leola Richards (Wife) Rural Route 2, Westfield, IL
*Spohn, Gustav J. Radio Opr Mr. Gustav Spohn (Father) 216 Paterson Avenue, Paterson, NJ
Swift, John M. Wst Gunner Mrs. Vivian M. Swift (Wife) 806 Van Buren Avenue, Oxford, MS
Poteet, Harold B. Wst Gunner Mr. Ras L. Poteet (Father) Penalosa, KS
Ray, William H. Jr. Tail Gunner Mrs. Eddie L. Ray (Wife) 934 Poplar St., Abilene, TX
 
*My Dad - deceased 1995
 
Thanks in advance!
Al

Jim,

I recently had the pleasure of meeting the navigator of this B-17. According Major Arthur Moran (a 2Lt. at the time), the plane did, in fact, go down as a result of mechanical failure (contrary to what I said in an earlier posting addressed to you). Maj. Moran gave me a detailed description of the mechanical failure. His description convinced me that my father must have been wrong in his belief that the aircraft was shot down by a German night fighter. My father was the radio operator. I guess there is really no question that a B-17 navigator was in a better position to know what caused a B-17's demise than a radio operator. This, the detail of Maj. Moran's description, and other factors have convinced me that Maj. Moran was the one who got it right.

Interestingly, Maj. Moran saw the tail gunner, William Ray, at a 301st reunion before Sgt. Ray passed away. Sgt. Ray was under the impression that their aircraft was lost due to flack. I guess it is a testament to just how quickly, on this particular mission, things went from bad to worse if these three crew members, the navigator, the radio operator, and the tail gunner all had different theories on what brought the plane down.

If Christian, the originator of this thread, is still out there, I have quite a bit more information now regarding this mission than when I first wrote. Christian, I would be happy to share the information with you, as well as some of my father's photographs of crew members if you are still interested. If so, just contact me.

Kurt Spohn