Al Blue
Plank owner
- Total Posts : 538
- Reward points : 4228
- Joined:
- Location: PA
- Status: offline
RE: History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
This is in reply to previous messages concerning the thickness of the aluminum plating used on B-24s. The attached diagram shows where different gauges of sheeting were used. These specs would NOT be allowed to vary by manufacturer. Al Blue
Attached Image(s)
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
RE: History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
Al, Good evening from Ann Arbor. Here is that quote from my post of 19JU08 which I reread tonight and could see how I may have mis-represented myself. "This basically meant that from this aspect, there would be some variation depending upon the section(s) of aluminum roll from which the respective part/section of the A/C was stamped (manufactureres allow a variation)." What I should have said was that within the coils of aluminum (or steel) from which stampings for A/C's were made, specific tolerances had to be held. These would have been dictated by the designs from CO and all facilities within the "Liberator Pool" would have had to comply. I hope I have cleared myself up. I had the opportunity today at the "Thunder Over Michigan" Air Show to see th B-24A, Ol 927, "up close and personal" for the 1st time since being converted fom Diamond L'il Although still a "work-in-progress," it is looking good! Best Regards! Steven
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
RE: History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
As has been my past practice, I am attaching this post from another Thread for continuity purposes. Best Regards! Steven
B-24 Liberators Over YAM - 09/06/2008 10:27:20 AM On Sunday, 10AU08, under heavy and ominous skies, those attending the 2008 TOM were treated to a sight not seen in many, many decades over the Willow Run Plant and tarmac: B-24's flying in tandem. Thanks to the Colling's Foundation B-24J, the Witchcraft (named after a FO WR built B-24H), and the CAF's B-24A, Ol 927, the visitors at TOM were given a "snapshot" of history. In two of the attached pics, the B-24J is to the right and the B-24A to the left. The 3rd undated, archived pic shows B-24's queued up on the tarmac during the FO WR "hey days." Hopefully, I'll have more/better pics later! Best Regards! Steven
Attached Image(s)  
post edited by WillowRun -
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
As the October autumn weather sets in here at Willow Run and school is well underway, I thought I'd post these two pics of "School Daze." The one is a group shot taken in December 1944 while the other is a close up of the "nose art." Note the recognition to the Ford Apprentice Program stenciled on the side next to the nose art.
Attached Image(s) 
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
With the housing market in such a slump in these troubled times, I reflected back on those early days at FO WR when, as the increasing work force required "living accomodations," housing projects such as "West Willow" began to spring up. Sanitation, along with basic accomodations were lacking to say the least, but Henry Ford's pay couldn't be beat for the "unskilled" work force.
Attached Image(s)
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
As is my past practice, since I make "hard copies" of this Thread for those who do not have computer access, here is a copy of a post from another Thread dealing with FO WR and ammunition for gun stations. In it, I used "on average" numbers while the "stated, total gross weight for a "factory fresh" B-24J "out-the-door" was: 4648 lbs. Here's the post: I shall give you an answer based on stats from FO WR using "on-average" numbers from the "H" thru the "M," keeping in mind what Jim Peters has written in the previous post dealing with the B-17G. Also the "type of mission" would also play a factor, i.e., the low level Ploesti Raid of 01AU43 had additional firepower added to the B-24D's thus changing payload capacity of amunition. (There were no FO WR A/C's involved in this mission.) BALL TURRET: 650 rounds/.50 cal gun (2) stored in containers attached to hangers outside of turret. TAIL TURRET: 500 rounds/.50 cal gun (2) stored in bins located in aft section of fuselage. N0SE TURRET: 700 rounds/.50 cal gun (2) stored in boxes located outside of turret on each side of nose fuselage. TOP TURRET: 480 rounds/.50 cal (2) stored in containers supended from turret ring in front of gunner. WAIST GUN: 700 rounds/.50 cal gun (1 @ each waist window stored in boxes along fuselage on each side. Ammunition was fed to guns by metallic link disintegrating belts. ammunition was supplied by Frigidaire and Colt Fire Arms Co. in individual boxes. (I believe on the "AAF Tech sub-forum) there is a Thread on ammo boxes/suppliers). The boxes were basically standard @ 150 rounds/box. Again, keep in mind that these are "on average" not allowing for the "D" and "E" variants as well as for MOD's, single tunnel guns, etc. Also this obviously was "standard" (factory) issue so any additions, i.e. extra rounds were determined by mission and/or gross weight. If extra ammo was "added" at a base, then it normally was stored mid-fuselage at the waist guns. Hope this helps a bit!
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
As the winds of war blow across the Pacific, Europe, North Africa and the CBI, a late summer storm flashes above the FO WR Plant. The plant was already a beehive of activity even though the facility was continuing to struggle. This pic is from a collection of Life west coast Liberator production series.
Attached Image(s)
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
Today on the "generic" sub-forum "All hands-on-Deck/Canteen," I have posted an article that had appeared in today's Ann Arbor News, the Business Section. I have attached the link here for those who may selectively go to this Thread on the Site. (Also, as I have posted in the past, I also keep "current hard copies" of this sub-forum for those within the AA area who do not have access to a computer or who, in some way, are incapacitated.) Let us not forget those who died on this date 67 years ago at Pearl Harbor! http://www.mlive.com/annarbornews/business/index.ssf/2008/12/future_of_historic_willow_run.html
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
arrow1 Steven and Gang : I wonder if you guys can help me out to obtain B-24D production line flight departure photos ( while airborne) in similar to the B & W photo of the B-24J overflying Detroit. Also some clear assy. lines photos 1941- 1942 of the B-24D's used on HALPRO and TW. Sofar I havent seen even one of the HALPRO and Ploesti TW at Consolidated assy.lines. Alex TW Historian Alex, If you are looking for FO WR B-24E pics similar to the Detroit Overfly pictured in this Thread, I do not have a similar good one. Also, since there were no "E's" from FO WR in the Halpro or TW Missions, there will not be any Assembly Line pics. Beyond that, I'm not sure of what assistance I can be on this one. Let me know!
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
Airgokky
Squadron Member
- Total Posts : 15
- Reward points : 1625
- Joined:
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
Steven I am researching B24-D S/N-41-11898. It crashed on a training flight August 14,1942. It departed Willow Run. (It was assigned to 90th Bombardment Group/320th Bomber Squadron. This was before production started and was brought in to boost morale during Labor troubles.) It was part of a three aircraft flight. It crashed between Battle Creek and Hastings, Michigan. Are you familiar with this incident? I have the accident reports but am researching this crash as it is near my hometown. I visited crash site and have a piece of the aircraft that was found there. Any further info you may have would be appreciated.
|
jpeters140
Moderator
- Total Posts : 7076
- Reward points : 19504
- Joined:
- Location: Columbus, Indiana
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
Tony Morales has the accident listed in his Volume 1 of Fatal Army Air Forces Aviation Accidents in the United States 1941-1945. Jim :-)
James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions 99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45 M/Sgt USAF (Retired)
|
Airgokky
Squadron Member
- Total Posts : 15
- Reward points : 1625
- Joined:
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
I looked at his book at my local library. what I need is detailed daily squadron history or diaries. Am requesting same from AFHRA. What I am really looking for is info about sabotage at Willow Run and any arrests that were made.
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
Airgokky What I am really looking for is info about sabotage at Willow Run and any arrests that were made. Dave, I do not have currently, at hand any exact information you are requesting. However, when I get into the "archives" at the Henry Ford Museum, I'll have this added to my list. The articles and documents that I possess are minimal at best. Will continue to look!
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
Airgokky
Squadron Member
- Total Posts : 15
- Reward points : 1625
- Joined:
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
Steven, Thank you for your effort. I tried the HFM but without success. I didn't know who or where to go. I also have a request in to Maxwell AFB Archives. The accident reports I have are vague as to cause. But I have an unofficial source that there were two people arrested for sabotage. All four engines oil lines were drilled, according to the source I have. My Regards Dave Meek
|
Airgokky
Squadron Member
- Total Posts : 15
- Reward points : 1625
- Joined:
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
My Dad Graduated from Wayne High School 1944. He joined the AAF in January !944. Before graduation and after Basic he went to Michigan Tech for flight crew training ( navigation I think). He was home on leave and went Willow Run for the roll out of the 6000th B24. I have his souvenier cards from that day. My Mom's Bother was a chief petty officer on the USS Hornet from its shakedown criuse--The Doolittle Raid--the Battle of Midway--Guadalcanal--And the Battle of Santa Cruise where it was sunk. And then to other carriers for the rest of the war. My Mom had Five brothers that were all in the service then. All of them saw battle and survived to be old men. Two are still with us. I grew up knowing I lived among HEROES! Regards Dave Meek
|
Airgokky
Squadron Member
- Total Posts : 15
- Reward points : 1625
- Joined:
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
There are some old airplane hangars here at Cadillac, Michigan that, according to some old timers, are covered in leftover B24 aluminum skins. they are corrigated side walls and roofs. They are still there on south end of airport.
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
Airgokky My Dad Graduated from Wayne High School 1944. He joined the AAF in January !944. Before graduation and after Basic he went to Michigan Tech for flight crew training ( navigation I think). He was home on leave and went Willow Run for the roll out of the 6000th B-24. I have his souvenier cards from that day. Regards Dave Meek Dave, Thanks for the post and will continue to search. There were two later incidences at FO WR, one involving a collision on the tarmac and another while moving (relocating) an A/C that had been disabled. Neither of these involved early production models. Also, I believe there is a "Thread" on this Site in which that post card is pictured. I've also attached a few pics of FO WR #6000.
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
Airgokky
Squadron Member
- Total Posts : 15
- Reward points : 1625
- Joined:
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
Steven, If and when you find something on my request for sabotage at FO WR-- I would like info on the ones you mentioned on the ramp. It would be helpful for my research. Thanks, Dave Meek
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
Dave, I shall definitely revisit "anything" involving "alleged sabotage" at FO WR. However, until I get into the "Archives" at the Henry Ford Museum after the holidays for more info, I have gone through my documentation and references again without much success. I've "heard stories" about incidencies which may have occurred, but again, having worked in a factory for almost 32 years, "urban legends" abound and often are non-existent. (As an example, I just did an historical section for an article by the current Manager at GM WR in the Ann Arbor News for Sunday, 07DE08. I've attached the link.) Merry Christmas Night! http://www.mlive.com/annarbornews/business/index.ssf/2008/12/future_of_historic_willow_run.html
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|
WillowRun
AMIABLE HISTORIAN
- Total Posts : 1993
- Reward points : 18342
- Status: offline
Re:History: Willow Run Liberators
(permalink)
Per my past practice of collecting info from other Threads pertaining to FO WR so as to make hard copies available to those without computer access or skills in the AA area, here is an addition: Also I thought you might appreciate this second pic from FO WR (NOT related to the A/C in question) taken on 11SE44 on the "K" Assembly line at about ST 50, shows the G.L.M. top turret (total sub assembly part #32GF-8227-6 as received at FO WR) being moved into position through the top fuselage opening. If you look closely, the canopy is sitting on top of the port wing aft of the #2 engine location where it will be assembled within the same station before exiting as part of the "final assembly process." At this point, the outer wings have not been added (this is done at ST 54 wherein the two lines merge into one final line along each bay, "H" and "K").
Attached Image(s)
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian ADMINISTRATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Life Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
|