Nick, In going through what photos and data I have, here is another photo taken 3 days earlier, but I am not sure if it is the same A/C as the one in question.  There are no "truly" identifiable markings.  Furthermore, the one taken outside is during or after a rain shower (note building, pavement and A/C) which seems to me to have skewed the photo.  Also, the interior photo (attached) does show different shades to the paint.  Would lighting have made a difference?  (I tender this because today in the current day GM WR we use a wide variety of "high bay" and "low bay" lighting consisting of sodium vapor, florescent, incadescent, sodium vapor "white" light, etc. which all have a marked difference when photos are taken.)  Again, I don't know if this makes any difference or helps.  As for the lack of "color demarcation" between upper and lower fuselage which indeed bcame a signature marking on CAMO/OD FO WR A/C's, I do not find this unusual.  The first few A/C's off the Assembly Line were considered as "Production Trial Runs" (PTR's) and were meant to "duplicate" full, regular production.  However, as I mentioned in Post #51 in response to Al Blue, I believe that the first few were a true labor just to get them through the "assembly process."  Who knows, that first A/C could have been "tugged" out of the hangar and then done a static "run-up" on the tarmac for media purposes.  Best Regards!   Steven 

[image]local://upfiles/11777/E2955EFAA110498CA94E74B434070BAA.jpg[/image]

Attached Image(s)

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Thanks Steven..........maybe we should just appreciate these photos for the valuable records they are . But they usually bring up more items of interest---like the pre-May 1942 fuselage insignia here with the red centre ( unless I'm hallucinating ). Also noticed the 2 " ghosts " under the tailplane......                   Nick

Nick,     Yes, I agree!  I am so appreciative or the few photos that I have, the expertise on this Site and others, the lively debates (which usually lead to more questions) and the gift that we all have from "another generation" to teach and instruct the youth of today about their legacy.  As for the "ghosts..."  both port and starboard, I don't have a clue!  In fact, I didn't even see the one on the "port side"  (I guess that's because it's a ghost)!  As for the insignia, these early A/C's definitely "beg the question" as to "true production-at-rate" or early A/C's for media exposure.  I am sure that any photo of a by-gone era begs questions.   I have attached the next sequential earliest photo that I have of a "true production-at-rate" B-24E.  Notice the definitive demarcation lines (#27020).  Nick, I'm sure this is inspire more questions!  Best Regards!    Steven

[image]local://upfiles/11777/7FB5921D555040A491477B3DE294CA1D.jpg[/image]

Attached Image(s)

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Steven         these "ghosts" are not unique, there are a few others; this is the Lancaster final assembly at Woodford, note the figures on the left and right platforms. I imagine something to do with the exposure, though your 2 figures don't seem to be moving.
Your photo above is a good example of WR's wavy division , Tulsa's was wavy but flatter.  Thanks    Nick

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Nick and All,  Good Morning!   Found this close-up photo of a "christening" at FO WR.  It shows a good view of the FO WR wavy demarcation line along with a good view of relative size between the A/C and the WAC doing the christening.  I'm sorry but I have no other details on the photo.  Best Regards!  Steven

[image]local://upfiles/11777/05F17CCDAD094956AC8FBEA831DE0516.jpg[/image]

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

In searching into records that might be available through the Henry Ford Museum Archives, I came across this one about  the FO WR Bomber Plant and its "lean manufacturing" for that period in history.  I found the link interesting both from a construction point of view as well as from the manufacturing   and assembly aspect of a bomber based on automotive "assembly line technology."  Also on this link, are references to other facets of the FO WR facility.  Also referenced at the end of the article (page 4) is Warren B. Kidder's Book:  Willow Run: Colossus of American Industry.  This is an excellent book on the construction of the Willow Run Facility, but very hard to come by today.  Best Regards!   Steven
 
http://www.strategosinc.com/willow_run.htm
 

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Hopefully, some of you had seen the PBS series, The War, and in the 2nd episode, there was a brief section on FO WR.  the attached post is from another thread referencing this.  Again, it has to do with the peak point of manufacturing at FO WR.  Best Regards!   Steven
 
"John,    Yes, that is correct with  the following caveat:  This was during the height of production in 1944 during the "J" runs where, on average, 63 A/C's rolled out the hangar doors.  This was a far cry from the earlier days when "it looked as though FO WR wouldn't be able to produce anything substantial, and was even tagged by the media as "Willit Run."  There is a great amount written about the movement from auto to airplanes by Henry Ford.  Best Regards!     Steven"

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Nick, Steven:

I found this photo of a Liberator being painted at Willow Run. From this picture, it appears that the olive drab paint was applied first over a primer and then the neutral gray sprayed on. I would hazard a guess that the primer was gray and not zinc chromate, much like automotive primer. Note the green house and cockpit were masked off and probably pre-painted before being attached to the fuselage. I seem to remember seeing a photo of greenhouses stacked up before being fitted to fuselages somewhere.

From "Consolidated B-24 Liberator—Production Line to Frontline" by MIchael O'Leary
Caption: A liberator is painted at Ford's Willow Run plant. The B-24 could be completely camouflaged in Olive Drab and Neutral Gray by a skilled spray crew in just half an hour. Each of the painters wears respirators to protect against the effects of fumes. Also note how leading edges, engines and Plexiglas areas were covered in masking paper. The paint went on glossy but would dry to a dull finish.

I'll bet that half-hour time didn't include the masking off of the windows, engines, superchargers, etc.

Ken

[image]local://upfiles/9698/987CFB46F287460A93A2200DE7DCC3E1.gif[/image]

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Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy

Ken       I thought the same about the grey undercoat; there was a medium grey product ( a surfacer rather than primer ) applied to external surfaces. A Technical Order ( 01-60HB-2 ) in the Erection and Maintenance Manual (actually referring to laminar flow wings on P-51s) says
(this is over the one coat of zinc chromate primer).............
" spray on sufficient coats of ACME GREY SURFACER no. 53N5 to cover all irregularities; then fill skin butt joints with ACME RED VELLUNITE glazing putty No. 58485 . After completion of assembly cover with one coat camouflage enamel ".
 
For unpainted aircraft the airframe was a mix of 8 oz. Aluminium Paste to 1 unthinned gallon of Clear Lacquer----" primed surfaces, wood, plastic, and any areas not bare metal shall be finished with aluminized clear lacquer or aluminized clear varnish ."
                                                                                                     Nick

I found this photo of a Liberator being painted at Willow Run. From this picture, it appears that the olive drab paint was applied first over a primer and then the neutral gray sprayed on. I would hazard a guess that the primer was gray and not zinc chromate, much like automotive primer.

    I thought the same about the grey undercoat; there was a medium grey product ( a surfacer rather than primer ) applied to external surfaces. A Technical Order ( 01-60HB-2 ) in the Erection and Maintenance Manual (actually referring to laminar flow wings on P-51s) says
(this is over the one coat of zinc chromate primer) 


Good Evening Ken and Nick,   In snooping around in my copious pile of notes, I came upon this  "one-liner" from 13DE43 which stated ""Shop Coat" of zinc chromate on skin sections discontinued....."  Further on, 12FE44, "First A/|C at Willow Run completed without camouflage paint."  To me, it seems that in general "Shop Coat" pertains to the "general assembly process" of the A/C's from the "E's" thru the "H's" wherein z/c was used.  However, Ken's posted photo and the few that I have would appear to contradict this.  I'm digging a bit deeper to see what else might surface.  Also, Ken is right about the "time element" for "masking off" and prepping for the painting.  Not to disagree with Mr. O'Leary, but I believe that calculation was taken from an "on-average" figure similar to the FO WR number of "a bomber an hour" at peak production in the spring/summer of 1944.  Best Regards!   Steven

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Hi Steven..............as you say the "shop coat" was on the production line; the aluminium parts were dipped in zinc chromate which acted as a primer as well as a protective coating. It was thus OK for application of camouflage but not for a "bare metal" finish as specified for most combat types in about Oct. 1943 --hence the "discontinued" date of 13 Dec. 1943.  By Jan. 1944 B-17s were being delivered unpainted , B-24s from certain manufacturers a little later----apparently the first from WR on 12 Feb. 1944.
 
As an example of shop coat finish........from ANA Bulletin 157a...........
( ANA )  " 611 Interior Green is intended for standardisation of the product obtained by tinting zinc chromate primer , Spec. AN-TT-P-656, for SHOP COAT or interior finish purposes."
( the yellowish  chromate was mixed with black or green to tone it down for aircraft interiors ).     Nick

Nick,   Thanks for the post.  Paints (and painting) was (is) not one of my areas of expertise from the FO WR Facility.  To me, it was "simply" a transition from OD to "clean skin."  In one of my "interviews" and having a "Rosie the Riveter" in our plant in 2004, she had made the comment that "during lunch time, she enjoyed walking throught the final assembly area and see the huge, shiney airplanes all lined up and ready to fly off somewhere."  That line of  clean skins was indeed impressive!  Attached is a typical photo.     Best Regards!  Steven
 

[image]local://upfiles/11777/9F12F1AA70F54E4B81E4E5AB352B521F.jpg[/image]

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Pursuant upon my first post in this "thread,"  I have attached a scan of a "final pay envelope" issued to the father of one of my senior engineers here at present day GM WR, two weeks prior to the final B-24M built at the FO WR Facility.  Note on the envelope the following items: 
1. On the right side is the back of the envelope with the continuous "war bond" promo.
2. The pay was for two weeks by check (in the early years it was in cash) with the deductions listed.
3. We have never figured out the "pencil scratchings"
4. I have taken the liberty to remove his SS# from the top of the front side.
5. This envelope is identical to the one I have encased at home.

Thought some of you might enjoy this small, personal bit of history!    
Best Regards!  Steven


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Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Am posting this  from another one of my Threads in the event that someone looking specifically at this, History: Willow Run Liberators, thread  "might recognise" the envelope photo. 
although it is not that clear,  I was asked about  (a) the pencil marks (which could be personal to the individual) and (b) the "bold" coding on the front, upper left (BF - 7692).  I'm having a brain fade on this, but know that it is not a "department number."    Best Regards!    Steven

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Steven,

What's the date on the "shiny" picture? (Does your file name indicate September 44?)  and can you hazard a guess at the AAF serial on the leading machine (ending in 545)

Rob

To All and Most Especially to ALL Veterans,   HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!  This is a difficult post on this Thread!!!  The FO WR B-24 Liberator Facility, the present day GM WR Transmission Plant, is in the process of preparing for the possible shutdown of 75% of the Site within the next 2.5 years.  When this day arrives, it will be most sad for myself, not only for the employment it offered me as I prepare to retire, but also because of the History of the facility.  As I have mentioned in this and other numerous Threads, one of the "highlights" of my life occurred on Sunday, 07AU05, when I had the honor of flying in the Collings Foundation B-24J decked out in the motif of the B-24H-FO, The Witchcraft, which "flew 130 missions without an abort or loss of crew."  What made this so extra special was the photo which appeared in the November 2005 copy of Air Classics Magazine (Vol. 41, Number 11) depicting the Witchcraft banking low over her "Mother Plant."  I have attached this photo as it tied together the 21 century WR plant to the those war-torn years of another era!  I salute and thank not only our Vets, but also the Collings Foundation and Air Classics Magazine!   Best Regards!  Steven

[image]local://upfiles/11777/42D08B4767514F378F92EE8AAE7D5FEA.jpg[/image]

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Having just posted a photo and nostalgic look at the FO WR Facility, now GM WR, I pulled up this post from the Thread: Tranversing the Bomb Bay at Altitude.  I was curious, due to my flight on the Collings foundation B-24, about the "limited space."  However, the attached copy speaks more to WR and The Witchcraft.  What follows is an excerpt from our plant newspaper, The Hydra-Life.
 
On Sunday, August 7, I had the experience of a lifetime, which not only further satisfied my passion for the history of the Willow Run built B-24 Liberator, but also showed me the meaning and value of “Preventative Maintenance.” This year’s Willow Run air show featured WWII era bombers of which one was the meticulously restored B-24J Liberator belonging to the Collings Foundation. It is the only true air-worthy Liberator remaining in the world today. Although this particular bomber was not originally built here, the “nose art” motif current for this year’s “air show” season was that of the most famous Willow Run built bomber, Witchcraft. I flew in this historic B-24 in the same air space through which the “greatest generation” took off for combat more than 60 years ago. Banking over the “Mother Plant” at 1000 ft. was one of the thrills of my life! This B-24H Liberator was built by Ford at Willow Run and eventually assigned to the 8th Air Force, 467th BG, 790 BS based in England. It was here that the Liberator took on its identity as Witchcraft. It holds the record among all B-24’s built during WWII for the most missions flown, 130, and for never having had an aircrew casualty or an aborted mission! Over time, it was flown by three different crews. This speaks volumes not only to the skill and “luck” of the airmen in combat, but also to the skill and dedication of the maintenance crews on the ground.
While waiting for my turn to fly in the B-24, I had the privilege to talk with one of the mechanics who serviced the actual plane in England. He related several stories, which he could remember, to our flight group, but two things stood out from his conversation: the importance of preventative maintenance as opposed to reactive (the record of non-aborts proves this), and the ability to have “available parts.” He smiled when he mentioned the latter because “available parts” under wartime conditions often meant, in his words, “appropriating parts from less fortunate planes (cannibalization).” He took pride in what he did to keep the young airmen safe and in the air.
Today in the 21st Century, Willow Run also has the opportunity to continue this tradition of maintenance excellence. This Plant has the ability to improve upon machine uptime and thus contribute to increased productivity. This requires planning, attention to detail, tenacity and good communication. From Witchcraft of the 1940’s to improved machine maintenance of today, Willow Run still has the “can do” attitude of its employees to accomplish great tasks on a daily basis. In peacetime as in wartime, the thread of history continues to flow through the Willow Run Plant.
 

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Found this photo of a restored 1942 Ford Motor Company Tugger used at the FO WR Facility to "tug" Libs as required.   It sort of makes a nice addition to a Memorial Day or 4th of July Parade!  Best Regards!  Steven

[image]local://upfiles/11777/0ADD9058C178401BABCCECD605C59C16.jpg[/image]

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Came across an article tonight by Richard Grudens in an old copy of WWII History magazine entitled:  Henry Ford: Helped Lead American WWII Production Efforts.  It is a rather lengthy article, and will include only a paragraph about the FO WR Facility.  What I noticed about the paragraph was the Ford Final Production number of 86, 865.  In re-reading this, I really became confused as I wasn't sure what this number was.  The FO WR facility had a final number of 8,685 which included the KD's.  What else would this have included outside of WR or was this just a "fat-fingered" typo?
Best Regards!  Steven
 
'It was the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor that inspired Ford to begin a tremendous, all-out manufacturing effort. To the west of Dearborn, the giant Willow Run plant was built to produce B-24 Liberator bombers on an assembly line that was a mile long. The first bomber rolled off the line in May 1942, beginning the effective production of several hundred aircraft a month. Bombers were produced at the rate of one plane per hour, thereby confounding Ford's critics, who had called the plant undertaking "Willit Run." By the end of the war, Ford had built 86,865 complete aircraft, plus 57,851 airplane engines, thousands of engine superchargers and generators, and 4,291 military gliders."
 
 

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum