ArmyAirForces.com
Home Databases AAF Forum Photo Galleries Research Help The Store Contact  
Prev Thread Prev Thread   Next Thread Next Thread
 Glider Flight Training
Author Message
walkerarmyairfield

  • Total Posts : 185
  • Reward points : 190
  • Joined: 08/17/2007
  • Location: Stafford, Kansas
  • Status: offline
Glider Flight Training - 12/30/2007 03:16:46 PM
A question for the Glider Pilots out there, Did any of you take Glider Training at Goodland or Hays, Kansas.  In studying glider training history there seemed to have be a company Named Hart that did the Glider Work. I may have the Company name wrong. I think they had 3 airfields in Kansas. Thank you, Phillip
Bill Larkins

  • Total Posts : 213
  • Reward points : 297
  • Joined: 07/13/2002
  • Location: San Francisco Area
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 12/30/2007 03:41:58 PM
My apologies for answering with a question instead of an answer but your post was interesting to someone who knows very little about gliders. I am wondering if glider training and bases were under the regular Army (ground forces) and not the AAF? My Bible is the AAF Installations Directory for 1 Dec 1944 and it does not list either of the fields that you mention and I can only find one item for gliders. Under Flying Training there is a listing for "Glider Advanced" at South Plains AA Field, Lubbock, Texas. I am under the impression that all of the CG-4 pilots were Infantry personnel.
walkerarmyairfield

  • Total Posts : 185
  • Reward points : 190
  • Joined: 08/17/2007
  • Location: Stafford, Kansas
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 12/30/2007 03:58:32 PM
Bill, I am going to have to go thru my files on Gliders.  As I recall the Goodland Kansas airport was built  for Glider training only.  It had good sized concrete runways. There was a training field just east of Hays kansas. This Hays field was grass.  I think there was one in the Southeast part of the State also. Hart must have been a contract flight school. As windy as it gets in this part of Kansas, Glider Training must have been a real challenge.  Have some pictures of the classes and the trainers, they look like L4's with the engines removed. Which made a glider. I will look and see what I can find and post my findings.  Phillip
walkerarmyairfield

  • Total Posts : 185
  • Reward points : 190
  • Joined: 08/17/2007
  • Location: Stafford, Kansas
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 12/30/2007 04:47:04 PM
Bill, I found a few items.  These were Contract Flying Schools. The one at Goodland Airport was William A. Ong who operated "Grand Central Flying School". The Hays School was " Harte Flying Service" grass runway had no name.  Pittsburg, Kansas was "McFarland Flying Service" using the civil airport. I would imagine the Glider Museum at Lubbock Texas would have a lot of information on the contact schools.  Phillip
Huey

  • Total Posts : 564
  • Reward points : 18
  • Joined: 05/15/2006
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 12/30/2007 06:54:04 PM
Bill
Phillip

Contract Flight School airfields list can be had at http://www.airforcebase.net/aaf/cfs_list.html

The list indicates 'Army Air Forces' so if nothing else that's a nod toward answering Bill's question.

Andy
<message edited by Huey on 12/31/2007 08:51:53 AM >
jpeters140

  • Total Posts : 5208
  • Reward points : 1010
  • Joined: 01/02/2002
  • Location: Columbus, Indiana
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 12/30/2007 08:40:49 PM
There was CG4 glider training at Atterbury Army Air Field in WW II.
 
As an auxiliary of Bowman Field, Atterbury Army Air Base assisted the Troop Carrier Command in training pilots.
Glider Pilot training was conducted at the Atterbury Army Airfield during 1944 and 1945. In March of 1944 liaison type airplanes arrived at Atterbury Army Airfield from Bowman Field, Kentucky for the glider pilot training program. The small planes with their motors shut off give the filers practice identical to landing a glider.
In June 1944 several gliders arrived at the air field and were the first reported at the field. Also, on June 19, 1944 a glider landed in a cow pasture east of the airfield on the Marr farm. The glider was snatched from the field the next day by a C-47 in an air-ground "close line snatch." An experienced C-47 pilot and glider pilot from Stout Field at Indianapolis were called upon to make the pick-up. A jeep pulled the glider to the corner of the field and a tow line was laid out in front of the glider and stretched across two vertical poles about 12 feet high. It took four tries for the C-47 pilot to pick up the glider. It became a common site around the area for gliders to make unscheduled stops in farm fields.
Full scale glider operations got under way on March 3, 1945. Atterbury Army Air Field commander, Major Robert E. McDonald announced that it would be the center for all glider operations in connection with the training of Troop Carrier Command pilots at George Field. George Field was northwest of Vincennes, Indiana in Illinois. Atterbury Army Air Field was also used for practice take off and landing by C-47 and C-46 transports.
Glider training continued after V-J Day during 1945. On February 7, 1946, high winds sent eight old gliders on their last flight. The gliders were all retired to the salvage section of the field when caught by the wind. The wind gusts reached 50 miles an hour at times as recorded at the field. The normal take off speed of a glider is 40 miles an hour and when hit by the gusts the began flying.
This information was supplied by Bruce Dalton of Columbus a WWII Glider Pilot from articles researched in past editions of the Columbus newspaper. Bruce was active with the museum staff had vast knowledge of CG4A Gliders for the museum glider project. Bruce passed away in 2007.
 
Bruce Dalton, 95er, museum volunteer and WWII Glider Pilot. The big smile is because he was working on a CG4A Glider nose section for display at the Atterbury-Bakalar Air Museum. A young Bruce Dalton standing in front of his CG4A Glider in England during W.W.II. Bruce Dalton and the Atterbury-Bakalar Air Museum CG4A Glider Nose Project and Scale Glider featured in the Hoosier Times/Herald Times Newspaper.
 
On display at the Atterbury-Bakalar Air Museum are CG-4A Glider parts donated by Glen Russo of Clifton New Jersey. Thanks to Glen the museum has glider bench seats, escape hatch, jump seat and seat backs. These items were found in the attic of a farm house in the Pocono Mountains in Pennsylvania. In the photograph above you can see how the bench seats and seat backs were used in the glider.
 
L-4 Liaison Aircraft used for glider pilot training at Atterbury Army Air Force Base. The engine was shut down for gliding training. It was also used for flight time for the glider pilots and sometimes it was used as an aerial taxi cab flown between Bowman Field, Louisville Kentucky and Atterbury Army Air Field. The TG-3A is a two-place, dual control glider manufactured by the Schweizer Aircraft Company for the Army Air Force during WWII. Students received about six hours dual instruction in the TG-3A before being trained in the CG-4A cargo glider.
There is virtually no pictorial history of the glider activity at the Atterbury Army Air Field and we need your help finding photographs, memorabilia and personal stories about this great time in history. Contact the museum if you can help.
 
The museum has one of the very few TG2A WWII Training Gliders in existence. This photo was taken at the Columbus Airport. The glider is stored off site and displayed during special events. The museum is trying to raise funds for an expansion project so this glider may be on display permanently.
 
There is a historical marker dedicated to the WWII Glider Pilots. The marker is located on Bakalar Green between the control tower and rotating beacon. Many W.W.II Glider Pilots and their families were on hand for the dedication of the historical marker.
 
This group of photos was donated to the museum along with uniforms, ribbons, correspondence and other artifacts by Melinda Filer Easley  and Pamela Thomas, daughters of World War II Glider Pilot David E. Filer. These great photos show the daily life of a WWII glider pilot, the uniforms, equipment, locations and most importantly, the people. Many of the snapshots were taken during Glider Training. Museum Volunteer and former WWII Glider Pilot, Bruce Dalton can be seen in some of these photos along with David Filer.
Without the former service members or their families donating these one of a kind historical photographs, equipment, documents and artifacts to our museum, you would not be able to view them, and they would be lost to history.
From left to right show the interior of the Glider Pilots barracks at a training site, and various photos of gliders during training. Many of the photos had "Place Studios division of The Goodeve Company Lubbock Texas" stamped on the back.
 
This sequence of photos show the view from the cockpit of a CG4A glider and the C-47 towing the glider. The middle photo shows a glider landing, note the tail still airborne. The photo was taken from the cockpit of another glider that just landed. The last two photos show a good side view of a glider and the uniform of the day for the Glider Pilot.
 
The photo on the left picture show David Filer, the shortest in the photo facing the camera and Bruce Dalton on the right side of the photo with his back turned to the camera. In the second photo David and Bruce are in the center of the photo. The center photo an L-4 aircraft can be seen and Bruce Dalton is 6th from the left, back row just under the wing tip. Tent City with a soldier shaving shows some of the Glider Pilots living conditions. A CG-4A being worked on in the photo on the right.
 
 This group shows David Filer in England, a censor stamp that appeared on back of some of the photos, the pilots lounge in England where they were censoring mail and a street scene in England.
The museum is always looking for W.W.II glider artifacts, particularly from the former Atterbury Army Air Field. Contact the museum if you have anything you wish to donate associated with the W.W.II Glider Pilots.
 
Jim :-)
James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)
PJP51

  • Total Posts : 681
  • Reward points : 250
  • Joined: 01/06/2002
  • Location: The Netherlands
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 12/31/2007 09:47:13 AM
Maybe you can find some information at http://www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilots/index.htm
 
Happy New Year !
 
 
Paul
Associate member of the Awon
http://www.awon.org/
__________________

Fighters for Victory (357th FG)
Bill Larkins

  • Total Posts : 213
  • Reward points : 297
  • Joined: 07/13/2002
  • Location: San Francisco Area
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 12/31/2007 02:37:36 PM
I checked some AAF Serial Numbers and all of the gliders appear to have been purchased with AAF funds. So the equipment was AAF whether or not the pilots were.
charge

  • Total Posts : 9
  • Reward points : 288
  • Joined: 04/09/2007
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 12/31/2007 04:05:48 PM
Was Glider Pilot David Filer any relation to Lt. Colonel William A Filer who took command of the 313th Troop Carrier Group and was killed in action on March 24, 1945 after the C-46 he was co-piloting in Operation Varsity was hit by flak and small arms fire.
 
The Filer name stands out to me from some research I did on the 49th Troop Carrier Squadron.
 
Phil Smart
bernies

  • Total Posts : 783
  • Reward points : 239
  • Joined: 04/05/2005
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 12/31/2007 06:00:49 PM
I believe the glider pilots were assigned to the Troop Carrier Squadrons along with the crews of the tow planes.
 
For more information than you probably want on glider training, go to
 
http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/numbered_studies/467593.pdf
 
This is the online version of the USAF Historical Study on glider training.
Bernie Shearon
Push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. Pull the stick back, the houses get smaller (unless you keep pulling -- then they get bigger again)
Nextgen

  • Total Posts : 111
  • Reward points : 322
  • Joined: 04/20/2007
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 12/31/2007 08:25:06 PM
FYI: my father took "deadstick" training on Okmoggie, OK then trained in gliders in Dalhart and Lubock, TX.  He was never assigned to a unit as his whole class was "washed" just before graduation and most sent to radio-gunnery school at Ft. Scott, IL.   I'll be happy to forward questions to him as he has internet access.
GLIDERMAN1

  • Total Posts : 84
  • Reward points : 162
  • Joined: 03/27/2005
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 01/01/2008 04:22:59 PM
Glider pilots were AAF, assigned to Troop Carrier upon receiving their wings. Training schools were run by AAF triaing command. The GP training program was a bit confused in the beginning as pilot and training requirements were changed and changed often through early 1943. 

At some point (I think by late 1942) in the training program all trainees were promoted to Sgt if they were not already a higher rank.  Upon graduation and receipt of their GP wings,  if not already higher rank, most were givne rank of Flight Officer.  A few were made 2Lt and some 1Lt.  Very few GP's were promoted in rank during WWII.

In the beginning many of the beginner schools were contract schools. These were under control of the Commanding General, Air Forces Training Center; Gulf Coast, West Coast or Southeast.  There were 18 of these schools.  Ong Aircraft, Goodland , KS; Sooner Air Training, Okmulgee. OK and Harte Flying, Hays, KS  were three of these schools.  All these were Preliminary Light Airplane and TG training schools.

Elementary-Advanced schools were opened by early June 1942.  One of these was Lockbourne, Ohio.  TG's were used there until (trying to do this and watch FL/MI football game is difficult) the first Cessna CG-4A 's arrived approximately the first week of September 1942.  1Lt. Chester Decker (1936 National Soaring Champion) rated power and glider pilot assigned to Clinton County Army Air Field (glider test base) was sent to Lockbourne August 31 on Temporary Duty to instruct flying the CG-4A glider.  This school ran 24 hours a day until September 21.  The trainees who qualified were immediately made CG-4A instructors for other trainees.  End of September, these men were sent to Smyrna, TN and Stuttgart, AR(kansas) because Lockbourne became a B-17 training base.   Eventually, CG-4A training was done at South Plains, Lubbock with tactical training at Laurenberg-Maxton.      

Charles Day

Silent Ones, WWII Invasion Glider Test & Experiment
walkerarmyairfield

  • Total Posts : 185
  • Reward points : 190
  • Joined: 08/17/2007
  • Location: Stafford, Kansas
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 01/07/2008 04:17:36 PM
Thanks to all who have submitted information on the glider training and airfields used. James Peters thanks for posting those pictures of Atterbury Army Air Base. Those are great pictures of how the bases were built and the equipment and builders needed to get those bases operating is a short  period of time. Again great photos of history.  Phillip
yokota

  • Total Posts : 7
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 10/23/2007
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 07/22/2008 09:04:54 PM
My father W/O charles e skidmore jr 439 t group 91 sqdn did alot of his glider training at bowman, kansas, texas and oklahoma  , i have written a book about  his world war II service. you can email me direct at   mskids001@aol.com, Mike Skidmore
mike skidmore
yokota

  • Total Posts : 7
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 10/23/2007
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 07/22/2008 09:15:48 PM
After my dad Charles E Skidmore Jr graduated from glider school he was a Flight Officer. I have all of his training and military records.
mike skidmore
Gregory

  • Total Posts : 12
  • Reward points : 60
  • Joined: 08/05/2008
  • Location: Warsaw, Poland
  • Status: offline
RE: Glider Flight Training - 08/06/2008 02:12:35 PM
Hello,

If somebody is interested in the sites of the USA where soaring and gliding took place in the first half of 1940s I recommend nice booklet "Birds of a Feather" published in 1945 by the Schweizer Aircraft Corp. There is a map there under the title of "Some Gliding and Soaring Sites in the United States".

Best regards

Greg

Jump to: