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Bob Watkins
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2011/02/11 12:05:15 (permalink)
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FEAF II

Don't know where else to post this subject so here goes!

 
I'm trying to get a handle on the 'second coming' of the Far East Air Force
as organized c. Aug 1944 onwards.
 
What I need is specific information regarding assigned subordinate units;
1.) Squadron's/Group's assigned and/or attached TDY

2.) Effective dates of service
 
If anyone has a source for this information I'd sure like to hear from you.
 
Bob

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bernies
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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/11 16:23:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
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Although FEAF is used for both organizations, the second one was plural (Far East Air Forces), while the first, which became Fifth AF, was singular (Far East Air Force).
This organization is now Pacific Air Forces at Hickam AFB, HI.  Its L&H is at
http://www.afhra.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=12354
On the list of assigned units in this page, two of the units listed as "Air Divisions" assigned during WW II were actually wings when they were assigned, although they were redesignated as air divisions after the war.

Bernie Shearon
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Bob Watkins
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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/11 19:46:54 (permalink)
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Thanks Bernie.

I realize that AFHRA now uses the plural tense for this organization, but
this appears to be a relatively recent innovation.

Do you know exactly when the 's' (plural tense) was added to this title?
Even official USAAF records used the singular tense until well into the
post war era.
In most of the news paper articles I have researched, both singular and
plural tenses were used as late as 1955 (that's as far as I've taken the subject
to date).

That 's' may seem like a minor point, but I sure would like to nail this usage
issue down once and for all.

 
Thanks again.

Bob


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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/12 12:33:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
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Bob -
From Book: Flying Buccaneers by Steve Birdsall Page 184.
" On June 15th , 44 the Provisional Far East Air Forces was formed with General Kenney Commanding.
It combined the 5th and 13th Air Forces and That Day General
Whitehead assumed Command of the 5th AF and the 13th
Air Task Force was disbanded.
The New Organization was Officially Activated on AUGUST 5th , 44."
Steve Birdsall is a Forum Member. Maybe he could add more
Info.
Hope this Helps -
Mike 
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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/12 18:03:44 (permalink)
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Thanks for the posting Mike.
These different 'tenses' are what I've been running to with all my research.
For example; 'The Army Air Forces In World War II/Combat Chronology 1941-1945' published
by the Office of Air Force History refers to this organization in the singular tense
( see Index-pg.779, 1974 edition).
I keep hoping someone will come up with a copy of the original field directive pretaining
to the actual formation of this unit, although I haven't had any luck in this area myself.

Bob
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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/12 20:30:56 (permalink)
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As far as lineage goes, the Far East Air Force (1941-42) is not related to Far East Air Forces (1944-45).
The Hq & Hq Sq, Far East Air Force was constituted 16 Nov 1941 and activated at Nielson Field, P. I.  Maj. Gen Lewis H. Brereton assumed command.  This unit was assigned:
5th Bomber Command (Lt Col. Eugene L. Eubanks)
5th Interceptor Command (Brig Gen. Henry B. Clagett)
Far East Air Service Command (Col. Lawrence S. Churchill)
These unit fought in the Philippines and the Malay Barrier 8 Dec 1941 - 1 Mar 1942
On 5 Feb 1942, the Far East Air Force was renamed the 5th Air Force.
After the fall of Java, Brereton disolved the 5th AF and moved to India to command the 10th Air Force.  Some of the units moved to India and some went to Australia.
In April 1942, a new command was formed called Allied Air Forces, Southwest Pacific, with Lt. Gen. George H. Brett in command.  This was the forerunner of Far East Air Forces.
In Aug 1942, Maj. Gen. George C. Kenney assumed command of Allied Air Forces, SWPA.
In Sep 1942, he activated Fifth Air Force and assumed command of that unit as well.
In the period between Sep 42 and June 44, Kenney wore two hats, one as commander of Allied Air Forces, SWPA, the other as commander, Fifth Air Force.  In June 44, he relieved himself of command of Fifth AF and assigned that to Gen. Whitehead.  Allied Air Forces, SWPA became Far East Air Forces (Prov).
The Far East Air Forces (!944) was a Theater Air Force like U. S. Strategic Air Forces in Europe. or Mediteranean Allied Air Forces, or Army Air Forces, CBI.  One might equate these to what is a Command these days.

Mark
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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/13 10:44:22 (permalink)
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mbee53

As far as lineage goes, the Far East Air Force (1941-42) is not related to Far East Air Forces (1944-45).
The Hq & Hq Sq, Far East Air Force was constituted 16 Nov 1941 and activated at Nielson Field, P. I.  Maj. Gen Lewis H. Brereton assumed command.  This unit was assigned:
5th Bomber Command (Lt Col. Eugene L. Eubanks)
5th Interceptor Command (Brig Gen. Henry B. Clagett)
Far East Air Service Command (Col. Lawrence S. Churchill)
These unit fought in the Philippines and the Malay Barrier 8 Dec 1941 - 1 Mar 1942
On 5 Feb 1942, the Far East Air Force was renamed the 5th Air Force.
After the fall of Java, Brereton disolved the 5th AF and moved to India to command the 10th Air Force.  Some of the units moved to India and some went to Australia.
In April 1942, a new command was formed called Allied Air Forces, Southwest Pacific, with Lt. Gen. George H. Brett in command.  This was the forerunner of Far East Air Forces.
In Aug 1942, Maj. Gen. George C. Kenney assumed command of Allied Air Forces, SWPA.
In Sep 1942, he activated Fifth Air Force and assumed command of that unit as well.
In the period between Sep 42 and June 44, Kenney wore two hats, one as commander of Allied Air Forces, SWPA, the other as commander, Fifth Air Force.  In June 44, he relieved himself of command of Fifth AF and assigned that to Gen. Whitehead.  Allied Air Forces, SWPA became Far East Air Forces (Prov).
The Far East Air Forces (!944) was a Theater Air Force like U. S. Strategic Air Forces in Europe. or Mediteranean Allied Air Forces, or Army Air Forces, CBI.  One might equate these to what is a Command these days.

Mark,
The lineage of this organization is not the issue, the issue is the official name.

The question still remains as to why, in numerous official USAF historical documents,
the plural usage, I.E. Far East Air Forces, remains in use to this day.
Bob
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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/13 18:11:35 (permalink)
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Sorry Skybear, I misunderstood.
I believe Bernie mentioned Far East Air Forces was renamed Pacific Air Forces, so it is not being used as a name since 1 Jul 1957.  It seams that as far as the plural form goes, it always refers to the 1944-46, 1947-57 version.  The singular form always refers to the 1941-42 version.
I would say that if some document referred to the 1944 version as singular, or the 1941 version as plural, it was a typo from someone who did not know the difference.  Stuff happens!!!
Bernie is the best expert on this subject, so if I am wrong, he will correct it.

Mark
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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/14 10:36:04 (permalink)
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The Official Name for the organization formed in 1944 was always plural.  It's suprisingly common for official documents to refer to an organization by something other than its Official Name.  Larry Ravenstein wrote a pamphlet back in the 1960s for the Simpson Center (now AFHRA) on common errors in histories (the most common was probably stating that a unit had been redesignated when it had been inactivated and its personnel and equipment transferred to a newly activated unit) that cited examples of references in orders, programming plans, award citations to an organization that was officially the "13 Bombardment Squadron, Tactical."  as the 13 Bombardment Squadron (Tactical), 13 Tactical Bombardment Squadron, 13 Bomber Squadron, etc.
Probably part of the confusion is that the "AF"  abbreviation had been used for both the singular and plural number of "Air Force."
Even Combat Squadrons does this.  Although it lists Pursuit Squadrons (Interceptor) and Pursuit Squadrons (Fighter), when they became Fighter Squadrons, it omits the (Single Engine), (Twin Engine), and (Special) designations they carried.

Bernie Shearon
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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/15 17:36:23 (permalink)
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Much to-do about nothing.  Singular, plural made no difference to those of us who served.  In Oct. '41 I was assigned to Hq. Sq. 3rd Bomb. Gp. (L) at Savannah Army Air Base.  Feb. 25, '42 we arrived in Brisbane, Aust. and became part of the Far East Air Force.  Along about Aug.  we became part of "Kenny's Kids" 5th Air Force (the Forgotten Fifth).  Sometime during the summer of '43 we became the 3rd Attack Gp.  Shorty before we headed to the P.I. in Nov. '44, I guess we were combined with the 13th Air Force, but continued to wear the 5th Air Force Patch.
 
With an "s" or without an "s", I was part of a unit that saw 41 months of continuos
combat duty.  Received 2 Pres. Unit Citations, 1 P.I. Pres. Unit Citation; 1 Congressional Honor Medal. Took part in 10 campaignes, Sank 642 ships, Destroyed 2000 aircraft, destroyed 200,000 tons of supplies, destroyed 1500 bldgs. and killed approx. 40,000 japs.  With or without an "s" we had a job to do, and we did it.
Jack Heyn
Photo Section, 3rd Bomb. Gp., 5th Air Force, Far East Air Forces.
 
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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/17 10:21:11 (permalink)
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bernies

The Official Name for the organization formed in 1944 was always plural.  It's suprisingly common for official documents to refer to an organization by something other than its Official Name.  Larry Ravenstein wrote a pamphlet back in the 1960s for the Simpson Center (now AFHRA) on common errors in histories (the most common was probably stating that a unit had been redesignated when it had been inactivated and its personnel and equipment transferred to a newly activated unit) that cited examples of references in orders, programming plans, award citations to an organization that was officially the "13 Bombardment Squadron, Tactical."  as the 13 Bombardment Squadron (Tactical), 13 Tactical Bombardment Squadron, 13 Bomber Squadron, etc.
Probably part of the confusion is that the "AF"  abbreviation had been used for both the singular and plural number of "Air Force."
Even Combat Squadrons does this.  Although it lists Pursuit Squadrons (Interceptor) and Pursuit Squadrons (Fighter), when they became Fighter Squadrons, it omits the (Single Engine), (Twin Engine), and (Special) designations they carried.

Bernie,
Thanks for your input on this matter.
Do you happen to know where I might locate a copy of the original Field Order (or Memo in this case)
connected with the formation of this organization?
 
Stepping backwards a bit, we've drifted somewhat from the subject of my original query.
 
I would appreciate any assistance you might be able to supply concerning the Order of Battle for
FEAF including any/all TDY assignments.
Thanks again.
Bob
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Re:FEAF II 2011/02/22 10:41:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
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You should be able to get the authority for the establishment of FEAF by requesting it from the AF Historical Research Agency at Maxwell AFB, AL.  I would guess there would be a War Department Adjutant General Letter in the 322 series authorizing the unit and a General Order issued by GHQ, SW Pacific Theater activating it.  Vol IV of The Army Air Forces in World War II indicates the AG letter was dated 31 Jul 44 (in the notes to page 648).  If you have a copy of this book, there is a discussion of the singular/plural name you can read.
As for components, FEAF tended to use its wings as task force headquarters, attaching units to the wings for specific operations, so it is quite difficult to track what unit was assigned where at specific times.

Bernie Shearon
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Re:FEAF II 2011/03/04 15:12:35 (permalink)
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Bernie,

The original idea behind the formation of FEAF was to act as the Pacific equivalent to
USSTAF in the ETO, but somewhere between concept and reality something got lost
in the translation. Air Force Combat Units Of World War II makes brief mention but has no
listing of this organization. It's almost like no one from AAFHQ on down was quite sure
what to do with it once they had it.

I'll check the Vol.IV reference source you listed regarding the plural/singlar name tense,
and if you do happen to come across any definitive unit assignment data for FEAF please
let me know, and thanks.

Bob

post edited by skybear45 - 2011/03/04 20:38:40
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Re:FEAF II 2011/03/04 19:07:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
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Bob-
Still having Fun with FEAF II I see.
Did some more Reading of Flying Buccaneers and
7th AF Story by  Kenn Rust.
General Kenney decided not to combine the 5th AF
and 13AF Hqs. as the 13th barely had enough Staff
for it's own needs. 13th AF commanded by General
St. Clair Streett.
In May , 45 the 7th AF was added to FEAF - It's Heavy
Bomb Groups worked with FEAF , Most Fighter Groups
Detached to 20th AF.
I have a list of all Units and Dates for 5th AF if you need
them. I also have the 7th AF.
Hope all or some Helps,
Mike
 
 
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Re:FEAF II 2011/03/04 20:36:15 (permalink)
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Hi Mike,
 
Thanks for the follow up, although we most definitely have conflicting ideas relating
to 'fun'. I rather prefer to to think of it as it along the lines of pulling teeth.
Seems like the more I research this organization, the less sense
it makes to me, even down to the name.
I read the section in Army Air Forces in WWII that Bernie pointed out, but even there
no definitive answers were forthcoming, including the name issue. Seems the 'old hands'
with the Fifth AF wanted to use the 'traditional' singular tense from pre war days, while
the 'new guys' were opting for a distinction between the two organizations via a plural usage.
The text does not disclose which tense was ultimately selected, if either.
All that is for certain is that 'son-of-FEAF' never functioned, as you indicated, in any way
shape or form as it was originally intended. It never became the USSTAF of the Pacific.
I was hoping to come up with a complete 'carved-in-stone' TO&E for this outfit, including
all TDY assignments, but it dosen't look like that is going to happen. Guess I'll just have
to run with the 'best guesses' I have been able to gather on the subject.
 
Thanks again for the input.
Bob
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Re:FEAF II 2011/03/06 15:35:28 (permalink)
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The only reason that USSTAF is in Combat Units is because it was originally Eighth Air Force.  Other AAF headquarters at a higher level are not listed.
 
Mike says most Seventh AF fighter units were detached to Twentieth AF.  In fact, VII Fighter command was reassigned from Seventh AF to Twentieth AF in August 1945 after having been attached to it since May.
 
New command arrangements were in the making for the Pacific as the Southwest Pacific, South Pacific, and Pacific Ocean Area theaters started coming together in 1945.  That would include Fifth, Seventh, Eighth, Thirteenth, and Twentieth AFs.  Just before the end of the war, Army Air Forces, Pacific Ocean Areas was redesignated as United States Strategic Air Forces (the Pacific version, rather than the European version) and Twentieth AF on Guam and Eighth AF on Okinawa were assigned to it.

Bernie Shearon
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Re:FEAF II 2011/10/06 18:24:07 (permalink)
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Mike,
 
I'd like a copy of the 5th AF units and dates.  I'm interested in finding out more about the 2d Airdrome squadron in 1946-47, which according to the AF Lineage & Honors statement was assigned to the 315th Composite Wing, V Fighter Command.
 
http://www.afhra.af.mil/f...factsheet.asp?id=17763
 
Thanks

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