PA.Dutchman
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Does anyone know what this is?
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08/10/2008 10:57:51 PM
Does anyone know what this is? A friends Grandfather brought it back from the Pacific. He fought the Japanese at a number of battles and his grandfather died before he was able to find out what it was from him. It is dark blue or black and maybe a flannel type material. Many thanks,
Sincerely yours, PA.Dutchman Son of T/Sgt. Ray A. Heilman, JR. 11 TH Field Artillery 1937-1940 Schofield Barracks 7 TH AAC 11 BGH 42 Sq.1940-45 Hickam Survivor 12/7/1941 AAC Armorer (P) 911 P.U.Citation1942
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Yunch
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Re:Does anyone know what this is?
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08/11/2008 06:02:57 AM
Dutch, If no one else comes up with a more intellegent answer this WAG may be the answer. If the patch of material is approximately 1 1/2 to 2" sq.and Navy blue it could be the patch of a Navy 3"50 gun crew member. One sat on the left the other on the right. One called the pointer and the other the trainer. The third member of the crew would be the Gun Captain. The three wore different patches just above the uniform sleeve cuff. The patches were different to signify their respective position. Loaders did not have a patch. These facts are based on 64 year old gray matter and should be judged accordingly.
<message edited by Yunch on 08/11/2008 10:27:41 AM >
Fair Winds and following seas. John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144) Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf 15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53
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jhor9
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Re:Does anyone know what this is?
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08/11/2008 08:26:12 AM
Another wild guess would be that the patch was used for target practice.
Jules Horowitz, B-17 pilot, 99th BG, 50 missions/sorties My tour was from 7/19/43-2/13/44
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BillD53A
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Re:Does anyone know what this is?
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08/11/2008 08:37:45 AM
Navy expert rifleman
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PA.Dutchman
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Re:Does anyone know what this is?
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08/11/2008 09:24:45 AM
Thank you all. Bill, the individuals' grandfather was in the Navy in the Second World War. I believe you got it! Thanks again.
Sincerely yours, PA.Dutchman Son of T/Sgt. Ray A. Heilman, JR. 11 TH Field Artillery 1937-1940 Schofield Barracks 7 TH AAC 11 BGH 42 Sq.1940-45 Hickam Survivor 12/7/1941 AAC Armorer (P) 911 P.U.Citation1942
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tonystro
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Re:Does anyone know what this is?
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08/11/2008 11:49:03 AM
An image to support inputs by Yunch & BillD53A;
Tony Strotman, MSgt (ret.), USAF Son of T/Sgt Francis E. Strotman, Engineer-Gunner, 491st Bm Sq / 341st Bm Gp (M), Yangkai, China "USAAF in CBI Tribute" http://www.usaaf-in-cbi.com
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333helo
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Re:Does anyone know what this is?
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08/22/2008 12:55:55 AM
Dutchman, Little late on this one, but looks like the others got it...guess I can say thanks in a way because it looks like the USMC marksmanship badge we called the "Pizza Box" and I got a little history lesson so to speak. Regards Clint
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Yunch
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Re:Does anyone know what this is?
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08/22/2008 12:46:45 PM
Clint, Thats OK. I was close, I had it confused with the Pointers insignia. Trouble is close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
Fair Winds and following seas. John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144) Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf 15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53
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navilluswp
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Re:Does anyone know what this is?
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08/22/2008 02:44:34 PM
This Expert Rifleman distinguishing mark is one of series of WWII-era US Navy sleeve insignia "distinguishing marks," mostly worn on the sleeves of jumpers in attion to Specialty Marks. Distinguishing Marks were mostly worn midway between the wrist and elbow prior to 1944. In JUL 1944 the position of those marks which were Specialty Marks was changed to midway between the shoulder and elbow on either the right or left sleeve. From 1941-1944 the marks might be worn on the right sleeve if the wearer was a member of the seaman branch or left sleeve if a member of other branches. The tremendous expansion of wartime ratings made determination of which arm the rating belonged a full time nightmare. After 1944, members of the seaman branch might wear a mark on either arm. With the largest standing Navy in the world, there was confusion due to the non-uniform appearance of personnel in different ratings. In large part due to the rapid acceleration of personnel through the wartime "rate structure", it became obvious that changing-out and upgrading rating badges and adding cuff piping to denote rank was an inconvenience. Therefore, in 1947, cuff piping was standardized at three rows for all hands. The "Uniform Regulations of 1949" abolished the left/right arm rating marks: all enlisted would wear their specialty badges and and distinguishing marks on the left arm. BTW: I think between 1915-1929, the USMC authorized the wearing of eight USN Distinguishing Marks or Specialty Marks by qualified US Marines. My dad remembers that they were a good way of determining if the wearer was "An Old Marine." Any Leathernecks know for sure?
CPT(VT) W.P. Sullivan SGHQ - G-3 Special Projects Camp Johnson, VT ___‹(•¿•)›____ Kilroy was here
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Yunch
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Re:Does anyone know what this is?
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08/22/2008 03:05:01 PM
Capt, If I remember correctly the time I was in, there were only three rates that wore their rank on the right sleeve and all other rates were on the left sleeve. The rates were Coxswain a third class rank and his next step up, he would become a Boatswain Mate 2nd class and the other rate was a Gunners Mate. The right arm rates took precidence over all left arm rates with the Gunners Mate's rate outranking every equal rank. This was from late 40s to mid 46. I think on a submarine it was a different story, where the Torpedoman out ranked all others. This is based on the fact that the Chief of Boat was a Torpedoman.
Fair Winds and following seas. John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144) Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf 15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53
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