Happy Holidays to all on the forum!
 
I decided to post a small update here so as not to hijack walkerarmyairfield's Merry Christmas thread with a bunch of B-24 stuff. Now that Gary has taken on his new job as Director of Maintenance and Quality Assurance for the CAF, a small group of us volunteers that have been around a while are getting some of the small repairs taken care of so that the annual inspection will go smoothly. Gary is still giving us guidance when necessary, and when the new crew chief comes on board it will be up to him to decide if we have time to do any mods this winter. On a related subject, now that some money is becoming available the work on FIFI's new engine package will soon start. That will be an interesting program to watch unfold, and, if I can, I'll post some updates on a new thread.
 
Once again, Happy Holidays!
Scott and Ellen

Scott,  Good Evening from Ann Arbor, MI!  I was at Borders this afternoon browsing and "lo and behold" there, staring at me ,were TWO magazines  featuring OL 927: Fly Past (February 2008) and Air Classics (February-March 2008).  The photo OPS were great!  What a beautiful restoration job the CAF is doing!  The full double page centerpiece (34-35) in Air Classics really shows off the paint scheme.  I would highly recommend both to those who have been following the transformation of Diamond Lil into OL 927.  Gary's comment on page 33 of AC about restoring original bomb bay doors reflects what you had written last year.  Best Regards!  Steven

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Scott: a salute to you folks on the restoration of Ol 927. Have seen pics in magazines, and am looking forward to seeing her when she makes it to Big D. Have been in her many times over the years, I’m anxious to see "lil’s" latest incarnation.
FYI: my dad’s group was one of the five in the 3rd Air Division which started out as a Liberator group then switched to Forts in the summer of ’44. Since these guys are like Ford and Chevy fans it makes reunions fun.

Steven,
 
Thanks for the heads-up on the '927 articles. I actually have the Flypast issue here at the house---it's kind of strange to open a publication and actually see your handiwork on display! I'm not in the loop on current plans, but it looks like they are going to do the annual inspection and then fly the airplane to Addison for display prior to starting the show season. I have no information or clue as to when the rest of the conversion will be done, other than the original program was to start in again when FIFI is airworthy.
 
Nextgen, 
 
I think you'll enjoy the changes when you get a chance to actually see the airplane in person.
I've met a few other airmen that were involved in the B-24-to-B-17 changeover--it's a LOT of fun to hear their comments about flying and fighting with the Fortress after starting out with the '24. One pilot told me that his favorite airplane was the one that got him home from the mission, but he had to admit that the '17 was more relaxing to fly.
 
Scott

FYI: my dad’s group was one of the five in the 3rd Air Division which started out as a Liberator group then switched to Forts in the summer of ’44. Since these guys are like Ford and Chevy fans it makes reunions fun.

 
Lance,   Do you have any written comments, notes, memoires, etc. from your dad that might be interesting to the Site Members and/or "Net Surfers" about the different aspects between the Lib and the Fort?  I am re-posting this over on the Thread:  B-24 versus B-17 (Link attached), and you might want to post there if you have anything appropriate.  Yes, "the battle goes on" between the two and, as Jim, jpeters140, once asked me: "Are you trying to start WWIII?"  I must say that it has been a very interesting and informativ Thread!  By the way, I'm a Chevy Guy!   Best Regards!  Steven
http://forum.armyairforces.com/m_123916/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#123916
 

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

One thing I can say, is that the PB4Y-2 Privateer single tail version of the B-24 remained in service with the USCG untill the early 1960s, and then later used for fire-bombers untill recently when they were pulled from use..that alone stands how well they were built and how long they remained in use..compared to the mighty 1935 designed B-17 being reduced to museum duty.
 
 
Terry T.
 
 

Terry T. ...Not quite...there are several B-17s still flying at airshows...about 9 or ten. compared to only two B-24s...one is the Collings Foundation's B-17and B-24, the other B-24 being Old 97, that belongs to the CAF....
the Yankee Air Force's B-17 Yankee Lady, the AZ Wing CAF B-17,
 Sentimental Journey, the EAA's B-17, the Pond B-17, the Galveston B-17,  Fuddy Duddy now in Califormia, along with Chuckie... the Hosper's B-17. There are two more,...the Texas Raiders and Liberty Belle, with another B-17 owned by the partner of Micorsoft's Bill GAtes in Arlington Washington.
Most of these B-17s  were fire bombers until phased out, much like the PB4Y-2 that is now at Galveston.
 
Jim :-)
 

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Terry,   A couple of items!  First off I've attached a Link to the a Thread on YAM's PB4Y static display and its history.  Next, at the 2005 YAM air show, Thunder Over Michigan, the theme was on the "Heavies."  There were the two Libs, 9 B-17's and the only B-29, CAF's Fifi, had been grounded so she didn't make it.  It was awesome!  To see the majority of them fly in formation in the afternoon was a sight to behold!  So this goes along with Jim's post.  As I've so often said, it's tough to be a Lib lover and still work at the GM WR (formerly FO WR) and a member of YAM which has the great Fort, The Yankee Lady.      Best Regards!  Steven
 
http://forum.armyairforces.com/m_127857/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#139366

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Nextgen,
 
Your father didn't happen to be in the 493rd B.G., did he? If so, I'd like to P.M. you and visit. I'm a member of the McCook Army Air Base Historical Society where the 493rd got Second and Third Phase training prior to going overseas.
 
Scott

You guys might appreciate the story of Bill Poland and his B-24 crew that got assigned to the 381st (B-17 outfit).   In all he says 4 Liberator crews were assigned like that.  It's kind of great to think they could do that and expect it to all be okay.

http://www.381st.org/UnitHistory/Stories/tabid/63/Default.aspx

I volunteered for the Air Corps but I failed my physical because I was underweight. I weighed 125 1/2 pounds and the minim was 127 pounds for my height. The sergeant told me to go out and eat a couple pounds of bananas or drink a quart of milk and come back and try again. The closest thing was a small eatery so I ordered a quart of milk (the man thought I was crazy). Anyway I got most of that down, went back and I had added only a pound but he gave me the other 8 ounces. When I got off the scales made a beeline to the restroom and came out weighing 125 1\5 pounds! I mention this because when I reported for my B-24 transition and saw that big bird I wondered what the hell was I doing here. That big old bird and me had a rough time for a while but I finally got so I could handle it.

After flight training I was sent to Davis-Monthan Field at Tucson, AZ, and picked up my crew there, and did our training there. (the crew wasn't too thrilled with my size either and some wives worried even more) anyway I got so I enjoyed flying the B-24 and could handle it very well. My crew and I were shipped overseas consisting of 10 members [along with other B-24 crews]. Four of these B-24 crews were assigned to the 381st on 22 December 1944. Two of these were assigned to the 532nd squadron and two to the 534th squadron.



Of course the nose gunner was surplus as far as B-17s were concerned so he was removed from the crew [group records show he became an Electronic Counter Measures operator with the 535th Squadron].

Kowalsky was also removed and trained as a radar operator with the 532nd.


It took them a while to decide what to do with us, so we did much of nothing until the 1st of February 1945, when we flew our first mission. I flew my first ten missions as copilot using a couple of spare pilots. Bennett [regular copilot] flew the missions with other crews. On all of these missions, the waist gunner was not a regular member of my regular crew.

My transition into the B-17 definitely was not formal. While flying as copilot the first 10 missions I learned the location of the switches and other controls, became familiar with the instrument panel etc. But I didn't have much if any "hands on" experience. After those missions, Capt. MacNeill took me up for "check" ride. I shot about 6 touch and go landing and my MOS was changed to B-17 pilot. Basically they said, you're a 4-engine pilot, deal with it. I was very fortunate, THE MAN upstairs was with us. As far as the 24 versus the 17, I was glad to make the transition, not because I didn't enjoy flying the 24 but the 17's reputation was more impressive and was a tougher plane. I think it was also a little easier to fly. I'm proud to have been able to fly both.

 

Scott Burris, 381st BGMA LTM
ArmyAirForces.com

Thank you Scott it was very interesting, and interesting how they worked around issues in order to get the job done.

Sincerely yours,
PA.Dutchman

Son of T/Sgt. Ray A. Heilman, JR.
11 TH Field Artillery 1937-1940
Schofield Barracks
7 TH AAC 11 BGH 42 Sq.1940-45
Hickam Survivor 12/7/1941
AAC Armorer (P) 911
P.U.Citation1942

Scott,  Sounds like Bill Poland and crew were Real American Flyers.  A Great crew.  Makes you proud to hear and read these stories.  I am a impressed every time I read one of these accounts.    Phillip

Scott,  In the pic, what's the s/n or info on the A/C?  At a glance w/o checking the Lib is a FO WR built ship (notched  anti-glare).  Best Regards!  Steven

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Real glad to see good B-24 commo here--finally!

G. Combs
Niece
First Lieutenant Clay Byers
Navigator Bombardier Radar
1st September 1944
482nd BG (Pathfinder)
389th BG
466th BG

Special note to Georgia....re-read Scott Burris's input again....give credit where credit is due...particularly the third to the last sentence.....

<but the 17's reputation was more impressive and was a tougher plane. I think it was also a little easier to fly>

B-17 Jim  (VBG)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Here is the last time the 11 BG H stood in front of a B-17, it was the last time some of them stood in front of any airplane. This was taken shortly before the Attack to Hickam on 12/7/1941.
 
My father is on the far left the second row I believe the second man in. I have put his R. A. H. JR so the family can find him easy enough.


[image]local://upfiles/14753/88EA278F794740BFAA19FC97AD27E27C.jpg[/image]

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Sincerely yours,
PA.Dutchman

Son of T/Sgt. Ray A. Heilman, JR.
11 TH Field Artillery 1937-1940
Schofield Barracks
7 TH AAC 11 BGH 42 Sq.1940-45
Hickam Survivor 12/7/1941
AAC Armorer (P) 911
P.U.Citation1942

Here is side two of the same photo, it is too large to download in my reply I am told.

[image]local://upfiles/14753/AAE4700F60304D8BBB6F4BC4D1F1CA87.jpg[/image]

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Sincerely yours,
PA.Dutchman

Son of T/Sgt. Ray A. Heilman, JR.
11 TH Field Artillery 1937-1940
Schofield Barracks
7 TH AAC 11 BGH 42 Sq.1940-45
Hickam Survivor 12/7/1941
AAC Armorer (P) 911
P.U.Citation1942

P.A.,
 
Here is yet another photograph of the men of the 11th. The handwritten information on the bottom of the picture states that it is of the 50th Squadron-11th Group-Hickam Field-November 1941. On the far right of this picture is B-24A 40-2374, the first B-24 to visit the Hawaiian Islands. The vertical fin and one propeller are also visible in your second photograph.
 
Scott

[image]local://upfiles/8432/4DE86A0E8F8B47138E3D84EF7C9EB17C.jpg[/image]

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Scott - Wow, the photo showing a B-24 at Hickam prior to the attack on the 7th is a real find - one that I have been searching for for over 30 years! Before positively identifying it as Lt. Faulkner's B-24A, however, there is a dating question. Faulkner did not arrive at Hickam until 0620 on 5 December, while your photo seems to be dated in November. (I cannot read if there is an actual date on the photo - all I see is NOV.) Can you clarify this for me?
 
Al Blue

Al,

According to Pearl Harbor researcher David Aiken, two B-24-type aircraft visited Hickam prior to 40-2371 being destroyed during the attack: 40-2374, flown by an Air Corps crew, in early November, and AL527, a Consairways LB-30 in late November. I was able to determine that the airplane in the above photos has to be #74 due to the radio room windows, waist door location and the vertical windows for the tunnel gunner. Here is a blown up shot of her courtesy of Mr. Aiken (I borrowed both these shots from the Diamond Lil thread on that other website, page 183/184). #74 was being commanded by 1st Lt. L.T. Reicher and was on her way home from a round-robin trip to Moscow. AL527 was flown by Consairways pilot Dick McMakin and was returning a group of PBY ferry crewmen back to the CONUS.

As to the date written on the bottom of the photo, it only says "Nov 1941", but it must have been taken in the first half of the month if David's research pertaining to 40-2374 is correct, and I believe that it is.

Scott

[image]local://upfiles/8432/2B882749F52F40019B44716D40D43037.jpg[/image]

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