Bob Watkins
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Another Insignia Search
If anyone has a clear image (color or b&w) of the early, unofficial
'mosquito' insignia of the 11thFS, I would very much like to get
my hands on a copy.
Thanks,
Bob
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buckeyeuk
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Bob do you mean the mosquito over an Alaskan mountain ? I thought this was the 18FS (Blue Foxes); and the 11th unofficial one was a tiger's head on a white disc. Not many photos but the mosquito seems to match with the 18th's white "L" on the rudders and the 11th's tiger cowling with their 2 white vertical bands ......?
There were a few personal emblems for confusion on P-40s .
Nick
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Bob Watkins
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Hi Nick,
There seems to be several conflicting opinions regarding the source of this 'mosquito' emblem, which I'm
hoping to sort out eventually (and yes, the mosquito is depicted hovering over three, sometimes four,
snow capped mountain peaks).
Unfortunately, the images I have on file of this design are small and grainy. I was hoping someone here
might have a sharper image for my to work from.
Bob
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buckeyeuk
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Re:Another Insignia Search
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Bob these are the only 2 images of the mosquito I can recall ( Nat. Archives); the 11th P-40E has evidently had the lower cowl panel replaced (from an 18th ?) . The other has the white "L" of the 18th and presumably that's their insignia. The strip in the colour photo looks like the drained lagoon on Adak and the PBYs are from Fleet Air Wing 4. This is part of the photo, on the far right is another P-40E with the "L" and a yellow spinner: looking at other colour shots I think both squadrons might have had yellow spinners and wheel discs. There is another photo of a line-up of P-39s and P-40s on Adak , in the middle is one with the serial looking much like "0361" which would make it a very rare P-40D. It's certainly 11th FS . You may have seen these photos before. Nick
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Bob Watkins
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Nick,
The b&w photo I have on file, but the color print I have not see before.
In trying to analyze what few b&w photos I've been able to come up with for
this unit, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that yellow was either
the 343dFG tactical color (verses squadron) or else there was a lot of aircraft
swapping between the squadrons.
Either one of these is a possibility, but too date I haven't been able to locate
any records on the subject.
What do you make of the horizontal rudder stripe in the b&w photo, is that a
vertical white stripe as well, or just a light reflection?
If it's the former, it sure looks awfully thin from similar period shots I've seen
on similar mid 1943 applications.
I'd like your take on this!
I'm going to keep trying to track down any info I can find on that 'Mosquito'
insignia and will let you know if I get lucky.
Thanks for the follow-up.
Bob
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buckeyeuk
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Re:Another Insignia Search
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Bob some 18th P-40s had the vertical stripe the full height but the lower part was narrow due to the rudder cut-out. The E with the white eagle (or Aleutian raven) no. 76 had it (plus a yellow spinner not white) as did no.67 in the line-up on Adak mentioned previously--but with a narrow horizontal. Note also the narrower than usual mid-fuselage band on 40-610 no.20 so they varied ; one on the Aleutians video (just watched it again) was very roughly painted without masking. The b-w photo ( USAF) shows a later model ( a K-5) with tiger head --not symmetrical so no template used, interesting (to me anyway) as it confirms the Curtiss factory pattern for Lend-Lease ( Dark Green-Dark Earth) ; these K-5s retained by AAF but later Ks to the Commonwealth AFs as Kittyhawk IIIs. The colour one (Nat. Archives) shows the 2 middle ones are P-40Ns, it would appear that by this time the tiger's head artwork had been abandoned. The other 2 are Es ---modellers please note the different shades of yellow and the way the Medium Green patches have remained darker than the faded OD41. No insignia on the right hand one for some reason. You may well be right that this was the group colour (also on the 54th's P-38s) though it would be a logical choice as one of the available Insignia colours ( and very distinctive). All for now Nick
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Bob Watkins
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Nick,
In the final analysis it would appear that its safe to say that
there were no well defined tactical marking schemes that the
343dFG adhered too, just something more akin to a loose (very
loose) set of guidelines.
This certainly makes for an interesting problem when it comes
to illustrating this type of unit. Oh well, what would life be without
its little challenges?
Thanks for the additional information, and also for the image
of the Aleutian Tiger P-40K with tricolored camouflage. Another
variation to consider.
Blue skies.
Bob
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buckeyeuk
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Bob these P-40Es got me thinking about the statements in a few publications over the years regarding the possibility of some of them having a plain fuselage star ie. minus the blue disc; only seems to apply to E-models in the Pacific in 1942 , and only those in AAF factory finish ( OD-NG) rather than the E-1s as built for lend-lease and in RAF colours. Many of the latter were retained by AAF with US insignia. The US insignia would have been marked in production on the OD-NG so unlikely that it would have been modified. It's possible the lack of blue is due to fading (many Es and E-1s went to the 49FG and RAAF-RNZAF in the Pacific) but these 3 photos appear to show no blue background; one is 11FS, 2 are 49FG. I wonder what you think ? Judging by photos, many 5AF P-40s kept their original British Dark Green-Dark Earth finish and weren't re-painted in US colours, no need to really although AAF didn't go for multi-colour schemes normally. So the blue-white insignia should have been carried. The P-40Ds and Es were Kittyhawk Is and the P-40E-1s were Kittyhawk IAs. Ds had 4 guns only. The dark lines and sqiggles are shadows from trees and camo netting. Nick
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Bob Watkins
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Hi Nick,
I've been curious about this myself and my 'guess' is that what
we're looking at is a combination of less than 'superb photography'
coupled with, as you indicated, fading due to the effects of
environmental exposure.
I'm going to try and get my hands on some continuous tone
prints of these images, and maybe this will be of some help.
The more I look at these photo's however, the more doubtful I am
that this will provide us with any concrete solutions, but it's still
worth a shot.
I'll keep you posted if any startling revelations are turned up,
but would advise against betting the farm on that eventuality.
But... you can never tell. Stranger things have happened!
Blue skies.
Bob
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buckeyeuk
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Thanks Bob always had my doubts too about the absence of the blue; strange it apparently only relates to the 49FG and 11FS though. Doesn't seem to affect the wing insignia either; as you say these aren't particularly good photos.
It may result from an incorrect mix of the pigments in the Insignia Blue in a particular block of E-models ( ultramarine, black and white) making a grey tone; though Curtiss were strict on quality control, certainly on P-40s for Lend-Lease in British colours.
Nick
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