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Amy Air Force Training Command

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BOBFXS77
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2009/11/29 00:08:16 (permalink)
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Amy Air Force Training Command

My father-in-law was stationed mid 1944 till wars end in Liberal, Kansas as a Flight Engineer Instructor.  I believe that base was the 527th Gulf Coast Command under the USAAFTC. My question is, what Air Force would that be assigned to if any? Possibly the 4th? Also, would he not have been entitled to the American Campaign Medal and the Air Corps Mechanic Badge since his seperation doc states he was an AP Technician 750. At 88yrs old his memory ain't what it used to be he says.
Thanks
 

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    Phil from Belgium
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2009/11/29 00:43:12 (permalink)
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    Hi Bob, do your father-in-law not know where the enlisted men got the Flight Engineer training. I'm looking to reconstruct the Military path of T/Sgt Mark Ebert , he was on the Thieme crew 719th Sq 449th Bomb group based in Grottaglie, Italy. I had post last week a picture of who is I think a class pcture and I'm on search of the place where it was toke. Maybe your father-in-law will recall some places where they did the Flight engineer training.
     
    Thanks in advance and greets from Belgium.
    SHAEF1944
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2009/11/29 02:07:44 (permalink)
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    During World War II, the facility was known as Liberal Army Airfield and was used as a United States Army Air Forces Second Air Force B-24 Liberator training base from 1943 to 1945. Newly minted multi-engine graduates were shipped to Liberal to transition to the Liberator, then sent to 1st Phase bases to be joined up with a crew for combat training.
     
    Before April 1944, Liberal was home to a Twin Engine Flying Training Group with four squadrons (60, 63, 1029, 1030), the 527th Base Hq & Air Base Sq, 324th Sub Depot, 444th (later 744th) AAF Band, and 396th Aviation Sq.
     
    Afterwards, these units were merged into the 2425th AAF Base Unit (Pilot School, Specialized, Four Engine)

    SHAEF1944
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2009/11/29 02:32:55 (permalink)
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    American Campaign Medal Criteria :
     
    a. The American Campaign Medal was awarded to personnel for service within the American Theater between 7 December 1941 and 2 March 1946 under any of the following conditions. 
     
     (1) On permanent assignment outside the continental limits of the United States. 
     
     (2) Permanently assigned as a member of a crew of a vessel sailing ocean waters for a period of 30 days or 60 nonconsecutive days. 
     
     (3) Permanently assigned as a member of an operating crew of an airplane actually making regular and frequent flights over ocean waters for a period of 30 days. 
     
     (4) Outside the continental limits of the United States in a passenger status or on temporary duty for 30 consecutive days or 60 days not consecutive. 
     
     (5) In active combat against the enemy and was awarded a combat decoration or furnished a certificate by the commanding general of a corps, higher unit, or independent force that he actually participated in combat.
     
     (6) Within the continental limits of the United States for an aggregate period of one year.
     
     
    It would appear he would qualify under No. 6
     
    If he was an Instructor, he probably was qualified fior the AAF Tech Instructor Badge while in that capacity.
    Also woulkd be qualified for AAF Technician Badge, with bar or bars denoting his speciality, which could include AP Powerplant, AP hydraulic, Mechanic, Propeller, etc, or any combination of bars a man was qualified in.  See pics below.
     
    Also would have worn Aircrew Member wings until June of 1945, when a seperate Flight Engineer wing was authorized.
     
     
     

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    SHAEF1944
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    BOBFXS77
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2009/11/29 11:43:02 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the info SHAEF1944, per my conversations with him he would quality havings served stateside for 3.5 years. So how would one go about requesting the award of the American Campaign Medal?
    Would it be against any proper protecal to simply purchase one from any number of venders. Other than the internet, where would the Instructor and Technician Badges be
    aquired?
    Bob
    SHAEF1944
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2009/11/29 14:53:54 (permalink)
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    He  ( or next-of-kin ) can request replacement medals at the link below.  A form has to be filled out with info on his service, but most needed item would be his Serial Number.  This would be free, and would include any other medals he is entitled to, such as Good Conduct, WWII Victory, etc .....
     
    I do not know of any place to get replacement technical badges, I see them on the BIG auction site occasionally, and they seem to bring a pretty fair price ..... just checked a few minutes ago, and there is one Tech. Badge with a Radio Operator bar, bid at $34.99 ....  specific bars seem to be harder to find than the basic Tech Badge.
     
    There is also one AC TS badge ....  Air Corp Technical School Instructor ......  not the right one, but if you keep an eye out, an AAFTTC ( Army Air Forces Technical Training Command ) Instructor badge will likely eventually show up.
     
    You might also try ASMIC  ( American Society of Military Insignia Collectors )  They have a " Trading Post " section where things like this show up.  See second link.
     
     
    http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/replacement-medals.html
     
    http://www.asmic.org/

    SHAEF1944
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    mbee53
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2009/11/29 20:16:09 (permalink)
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    Personnel assigned to the AAF Flying Training Command, later called AAF Training Command, did not come under any Numbered Air Force.  The AAFTC was assigned directly to Hq, AAF.  Therefore all personnel of this command wore the generic AAF patch on the sleeve.  The command you mentioned was known by various names as follows:
    Gulf Coast Air Corps Training Center from Jul 1940 to Mar 1942
    AAF Gulf Coast Training Center from Mar 1942 to Jul 1943
    AAF Central Flying Training Command from Jul 1943 to end of war.
    It's Hq and Hq Sq was located at Randolph Field, San Antonio, Tex. during the entire period.
    The GCTC never had a number in front of it and was never located at Liberal.
    Units stationed at Liberal Army Air Field, Kan. on 1 June 43 were:

    AAF Pilot School (Specialized, 4-Engine) - Hq
    3rd Weather Squadron, Regional--Det
    60th Two-Engine Flying Training Squadron
    63rd Two-Engine Flying Training Squadron
    324th Sub Depot
    396th Aviation Squadron * (* means black personnel)
    444th AAF Band
    527th Base Hq and Air Base Squadron
    1024th Quartermaster Platoon, Transportation Air Base *
    1029th Basic Flying Training Squadron
    1030th Basic Flying Training Squadron
    1278th Guard Squadron

    The 527th you referred to in your post must have been the 527th Base Hq and Air Base Squadron.

    Mark
    BOBFXS77
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2009/12/01 22:29:42 (permalink)
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    Thank you so much for your valueable info. An item I seem to be confused about is the number of years necessary in WWII for each Enlistment Stripe on  the
    left sleeve. I have read from 1 year to four years each.
    Also what would be the number of days served Overseas  represented and worn above
    the Enlisted Stripe
    SHAEF1944
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2009/12/02 01:25:54 (permalink)
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    World War II Service Bars
    This overseas chevron was authorized for each six months of service as a member of the US
    Army outside of the continental United States from 7 December 1941 to 2 September 1946 
     
    Service Stripes  ( Diagonal )
    Awarded to enlisted service members for each three year period of service.
     
     
    See pic below ..... top 5 are service bars denoting 2 1/2 years overseas, or 30 months   ( five six month bars )
     
    Below that is a single service stripe, denoting 3 years in service
     
     
     

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    SHAEF1944
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    BOBFXS77
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2010/02/02 21:57:24 (permalink)
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    Dear SHAEF1944, a AAFTTC patch has shown up on Ebay which now leads me to ask this question. I understand that the AAFTTC became the AAFTC in mid 1943. Would the AAFTTC badge or patch still have been worn to identifiy him as an Instructor in 1944 or would a redesignated badge or patch with AAFTC be correct.
    Thanks
    POW/MIA
    Forever

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    mbee53
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2010/02/03 10:01:06 (permalink)
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    AAFTTC stands for Army Air Forces Technical Training Command.  This is not the same as AAFFTC/AAFTC AAF Flying Training Command, later AAF Training Command.
    The AAF Technical Training Command was activated in early 1941 and controlled all Air Corps/AAF Technical Schools and Basic Training Centers.
    The AAFTTC was redesignated as the AAF Eastern Technical Training Command in July 1943 and placed under the AAF Training Command, which then controlled the 3 Flying Training Commands (Eastern, Central and Western), and 3 Technical Training Commands (Eastern, Central and Western).
    He was a technician for sure, as you stated, but he was not an instructor at an AAFTTC station as SHAEF implied, because he was assigned to 527th Base Hq & Air Base Squadron at a Flying Training Command station.  This unit was used mainly for housekeeping duties, but maintained certain utility and transport aircraft used by base personnel.  If he was an instructor, he would have been assigned to the Pilot School and been an officer.
    Remember that main job at Liberal AAFld was transition training of pilots from two-engine aircraft to four-engine aircraft, not training enlisted persoonel in specialties, that would have taken place at Chanute, Keesler, Lowry, or some other technical School.
    post edited by mbee53 - 2010/02/03 10:41:48

    Mark
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2010/02/03 14:56:22 (permalink)
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    mdee53, if I understand you correctly, a Sgt. Flight
    Engineer was not permitted to educate other crewman to become a Flight Engineer?
    mbee53
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2010/02/03 15:25:04 (permalink)
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    No, I am not saying that.  No doubt that happened all the time.
    I am just saying that he was not assigned to Technical Training Command, so he would not have the AAFTTC patch SHEAF talked about.  That patch was not a formal one anyway, and probably not worn on the regular uniform.  He would have worn the generic shoulder AAF patch on his shoulder.

    Mark
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    Re:Amy Air Force Training Command 2010/02/03 16:17:39 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the clarification Mark. In my conversation with Dad he stated that he more times than less he was airborn while pilots were being educated and at times he was matched up with a Flight Engineer trainee. The stories he has of  blindfolded pilot trainees having to regain control of the downward spiraling Heavy Bomber is chiling. Though he did not experience this particular episode, one such B-24 had it's main stucture bowed and never flew again. Anyway, I am now to assume that there was no means of indentification in his case that visually recognized him as performing these duties, at least offically.
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