I assist with identification and research for the website "Remembering Shared Honor", ( http://www.rshonor.org ) a joint Chinese and American effort to collect and document the activities of American soldiers, sailors and airmen in China.

We need help identifying the aircraft in these two photos;

1. A B-25 believed to be from the 12th Bm Grp;

[image]local://6988/964C35E6F6634B9FB1DA4BEE826EAE56.jpg[/image]

Attached Image(s)

Tony Strotman, MSgt (ret.), USAF
Son of T/Sgt Francis E. Strotman, Engineer-Gunner,
491st Bm Sq / 341st Bm Gp (M), Yangkai, China
"USAAF in CBI Tribute" http://www.usaaf-in-cbi.com

ORIGINAL: tonystro

I assist with identification and research for the website "Remembering Shared Honor", ( http://www.rshonor.org ) a joint Chinese and American effort to collect and document the activities of American soldiers, sailors and airmen in China.

We need help identifying the aircraft in these two photos;

2. A non-American aircraft, P5016, at an American base somewhere in China (note P-43 and P-40's in background)



[image]local://6988/EC3E6F31108F4D98921EEB0D52E37737.jpg[/image]

Attached Image(s)

Tony Strotman, MSgt (ret.), USAF
Son of T/Sgt Francis E. Strotman, Engineer-Gunner,
491st Bm Sq / 341st Bm Gp (M), Yangkai, China
"USAAF in CBI Tribute" http://www.usaaf-in-cbi.com

Tony:
I dont think thats a P-47 in the background..couple of things not a wide track gear & it has a 3 bladed prop.
I belive thats a Republic P-43 "Lancer" in the background..Chinese had a few of them.
 
 
Terry T.

P-43

 
Terry T.

Where picture of P-43 came from:
http://www.sinoam.com/
 
Terry T.
 
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: Terry T.

Tony:
I dont think thats a P-47 in the background..couple of things not a wide track gear & it has a 3 bladed prop.
I belive thats a Republic P-43 "Lancer" in the background..Chinese had a few of them.


Terry T.

Good Catch! Thanks for the correction.

TonyS

(edited for old fingers hitting worng--did it again--wrong keys)

The B-25H is 43-4978 "88" from the 434BS/12BG; P-5016 is a captured A6M2 Zeke re-painted in CAF colours and Chinese serial. May be at Kunming, there's a 23FG P-40 at rear.            Regards  Nick

The B-25  appears to be either a G or H model with the 75mm cannon commonly used in anti-shipping role.

ORIGINAL: buckeyeuk

The B-25H is 43-4978 "88" from the 434BS/12BG; P-5016 is a captured A6M2 Zeke re-painted in CAF colours and Chinese serial. May be at Kunming, there's a 23FG P-40 at rear. Regards Nick

Nick,

Your eyes are way better than mine. I wasn't sure about the P-40s assignment.

I thought the primary aircraft might be a 'Zeke', but I don't know enough to tell the variants apart.
And, I thought I had a reasonable listing for 12th BG aircraft, admittedly limited on the 434th, but didn't have that aircraft. How did you determine the serial number so quickly?

Thanks.

TonyS

ORIGINAL: Nextgen

The B-25 appears to be either a G or H model with the 75mm cannon commonly used in anti-shipping role.

Nextgen,

Thanks for the posting. I am pretty sure its an 'H' model (as Nick noted) because of the location of upper turret (aft on G, forward on H) and number of .50 cals in the nose (two on G, four on H).

For what its worth... The 341st BmGrp did use the cannon to attack shipping with limited success. Howver, they found its usefulness was better against railroad stock and light houses.
Even so, most of the veterans I've spoken with weren't very enthusiastic about it. Many felt the concentrated fire of 10 (nose-4, side pack-4, upper turret-2) .50 cals was more effective, and that the pilot was less likey to become target fixated than when using the cannon. They lost five aircraft and crews for sure, and maybe two others, during cannon runs because the pilot either failed to pull up from the attack or began the pull out too late.

Tony Strotman, MSgt (ret.), USAF
Son of T/Sgt Francis E. Strotman, Engineer-Gunner,
491st Bm Sq / 341st Bm Gp (M), Yangkai, China
"USAAF in CBI Tribute" http://www.usaaf-in-cbi.com

Here's another picture of the Japanese plane.

http://forum.armyairforces.com/photo.aspx?photoid=3479&asortType=6&apage=1

14th AAF 23rd FG 118th TRS

Tex,

Thanks! That's definitely the plane, a 'Zeke'.

TonyS

Tony Strotman, MSgt (ret.), USAF
Son of T/Sgt Francis E. Strotman, Engineer-Gunner,
491st Bm Sq / 341st Bm Gp (M), Yangkai, China
"USAAF in CBI Tribute" http://www.usaaf-in-cbi.com

Tony        I did a drawing of "88" many years ago from a photo---darned if I can remember where; there's also a colour drawing of it in an old modelling mag.
The Zeke was found on a beach opposite Hainan is. , there are several other photos of it. For some reason the CAF stars were only painted below the wings. Chinese serials began with "P".
It was restored by Chinese and 23FG personnel hoping to ship it to the States; Carl mentions in his "Sharks over China" that it was damaged before shipment and didn't fly again.

I'll try to remember where I saw that photo.                 Cheers   Nick

You can read up on this captured A6M2 at

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/WarPrizes.htm

and here is a copy of a report on its performance by Bruce Holloway

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/p5016.pdf

Note that P5016 is a Chinese AF serial number; the Japanese serial number for this particular airplane was 3372.

Holloway's report is remarkably consistant with the findings of the pilots in their tests of the more well known "Aleutians Zero" tested in October 1942.  A USAAF report on the tests can be found at:

http://www.warbirdforum.com/diego.htm

Regards.

Rich

Found another picture of it at footnote.com

[image]local://9530/AE3E0875688A428DB8D807982856A215.jpg[/image]

Attached Image(s)

14th AAF 23rd FG 118th TRS

R Leonard & Tex,

Thanks for the additional information and the other photo.

Tony Strotman, MSgt (ret.), USAF
Son of T/Sgt Francis E. Strotman, Engineer-Gunner,
491st Bm Sq / 341st Bm Gp (M), Yangkai, China
"USAAF in CBI Tribute" http://www.usaaf-in-cbi.com