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7th Photo Recon Group

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shane
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2007/07/20 21:01:34 (permalink)
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7th Photo Recon Group

Dad was 1st Photo Recon Squadron (Detached).  I have plenty of data on the unit's structure, etc, Mauer, Mauer, and etc.  The complicated part comes with it'sdetached service.  Basically, the squadron, like the 3rd PRS, was detached and sent where it was needed. 

So, for example, an element (Fight "C") of this Squadron was detached to 20th Air Force earlier in the war and flew with the 58th Bomb Wing and the 3rd PRS out of India and China. 

Later, Fight "C" went to Guam with the 58th and subsequently joined the rest of the squadron coming out from the states on Okinawa.  At that time they were assigned to the 8th Air Force, 316th Wing on Okinawa. 

The 316th would have taken part in the invasion had it been necessary...  Anyway, I have done a HUGE amout of work assembling the Individual Aircraft Records  for aircraft known or suspected to have been in the 1st PRS... starting, of course, with my father's plane which is known to me.  In some cases it is fairly easy since contacts I have made with people in the 9th RS have confirmed that they inherited nearly new B-29s from the 1st PRS when it was disbanded, and the Individual Aircraft Records confirm this.  So I know I have the right group of aircraft. 

Funny thing is that almost all of the IAR records note that when the planes departed the US, they were sent/assigned to "7 PR."  Now, I have got to believe that this notes that they were assigned 7h Photo Recon Group, 8th Air Force.  Many of the records note "7 316"  I am sure that is a reference to 7th PR Group/316 Wing. 

Can anyone confirm this?  I have never seen a reference anywhere to 7th PR Group, but it might make some sense for the 8th to have assigned the 1st PRS detachment to the 7th PR Group.  Can anyone confirm?

Thanks in advance.

Shane

Proud son of Sgt. Robert W. Anderson
1st Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron (Detached)
316th Bomb Wing, 8th Air Force
Kadena, Okinawa 1945-1946
---
492nd Bombardment Squadron
7th Bomb Group/Wing, 8th Air Force/SAC
Carswell AFB 1950-1954
bernies
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RE: 7th Photo Recon Group 2007/07/22 17:22:51 (permalink)
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You mention Maurer (a name that is thrown out a lot).  Did you know that he edited two separate books dealing with Air Force unit histories?  (This is sometimes obfuscated by references only to "Maurer").  You say you have looked up the 1st Photo Recon Sq, whose history to 1963 is recounted in Combat Squadrons of the Air Force in World War II.  (by the way, after the book was written, the squadron was reconstituted and consolidated with the 1st Test Sq on 19 Sep 85).  There is an earlier book, which has histories of groups, wings, divisions, commands, and air forces up to the mid 1950s, called Air Force Combat Units of World War II.  It's available several places online -- check the units db on this web site.  It includes the 7th Photographic Gp (later 7th Photographic Reconnaissance & Mapping Gp, 7th Photographic Gp (Reconnaissance), 7th Reconnaissance Gp).
However, the 7th PRG was assigned to the 325th Recon Wg, not the 316th Bomb Wg, and never left England for the Pacific (I'm sure you know the 1 PRS was one of the few 8th AF units that made it to Okinawa just after the war ended).  Since the 1st PRS was assigned to the 311th Recon Wg, it seems likely that only C Flight remained attached to the 316th Bomb Wg, which moved to Okinawa in the fall of 1945, as the 1st PRS Hq did.

Bernie Shearon
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shane
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RE: 7th Photo Recon Group 2007/08/09 22:38:20 (permalink)
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Since the 1st PRS was assigned to the 311th Recon Wg, it seems likely that only C Flight remained attached to the 316th Bomb Wg, which moved to Okinawa in the fall of 1945, as the 1st PRS Hq did.


No.  Flight C was 1st PRS.  All flights from 1st PRS were on detached service from 311 Wing and were assigned 8th Air Force, 316 Wing.  Flight C was assigned in July and the rest of the Squadron in September when they arrived at Okinawa.  I have the orders from HQ 8th AF to prove it, as well as the squadron histories.  I also have my father's Form 5's showing assignment to 316 Wing.  He was not Flight C. 

I am aware of all of the Mauer Mauer books cited here.  Thanks. 

Notwithstanding that I have, indeed, read Mauer Mauer with respect to 1st PRS, 311 Wing, 7th Group, 8th Air Force, 316th Wing, as well as the sqaudron histories for FLight "C", the rest of 1st PRS, the 3rd PRS and any other documentation I can get my hands on, I am simply looking for an explanation as to why, in August of 1945, the aircraft assignment shown on the Individual Aircraft Records for the F-13's bound for 1st PRS might have read "7 PR" with a clear notation that it was 316 Wing.  It was not a one time mistake.  I have it on at least three IARCs.

Thanks... If anyone ever comes across this and has some real information on this, please feel free to contact me.  Thanks.






Proud son of Sgt. Robert W. Anderson
1st Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron (Detached)
316th Bomb Wing, 8th Air Force
Kadena, Okinawa 1945-1946
---
492nd Bombardment Squadron
7th Bomb Group/Wing, 8th Air Force/SAC
Carswell AFB 1950-1954
garyg
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RE: 7th Photo Recon Group 2007/08/10 09:13:37 (permalink)
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Shane,
 
I cannot add to the "7 316" mystery (was there a specific day in August for these notations?  I wonder if it was pre/post V-J Day), but I do have some info on the 1st PRS Det C.  on my website.  The excerpt from Maurer is at http://www.cbi-history.com/part_ic.html#500.  I also have some info sent to me re. some of the a/c at http://www.cbi-history.com/part_vi_1st_photo_sq.html.  There's also a good story on the 1st at http://rb-29.net/HTML/74Humbystory.html/00.50Humby.htm.
 
If you have any history/lineage info that you can share to improve the info I have on my site, I'd appreciate hearing from you.  Thanx!
 
Gary
shane
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RE: 7th Photo Recon Group 2007/08/10 09:55:30 (permalink)
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Gary:

Nice to meet you...

>> I cannot add to the "7 316" mystery (was there a specific day in August for these
>> notations?

Yes, actually, it was 8/19/1945 for 44-61832 and 44-61854, and 8/20/1945 for 44-61817. I have located all of the 1st PRS tail numbers for the period after VJ day and am requesting IARCs for all of them to see if I can discern some kind of pattern.

Thought the date is after announcement of the surrender on August 15, 1945, it is my considered opinion that 7th PRG would have been sent to Pacific... since they were the eyes of the 8th... what we are seeing is a hold-over... after the surrender, this became unnecessary and the 7th was disbanded. Just a hunch. It does not figure perfectly since the assignment to 316th Wing occurred in July for Flight "C" and September for the rest of the 1st PRS. Perhaps the 7th PRG would have been folded into 316th Wing? The notations are clear. Eventually I will scan and send you copies.

>> ... but I do have some info on the 1st PRS Det C. on my website.

Yes you do! Your pages provided me a nice starting point some time back.... since then I have developed much more complete crew lists as well as some missing from your pages including Wilkinson Crew, Coe Crew and even Swick's fated crew as it was the day of the accident in India.

I have a huge amount of statistical and operational data on Flight C... for a sample see: http://www.woodburyweb.com/shoebox/Flight_C_Ops_Summary/pages/Page%2001.htm

There is much, much more. I have histories of Flight C for the period in the CBI, and these are crucial. I am going to be compiling a history, and will transcribe and scan the histories I have. You are more than welcome to whatever I have. Your project is an important one indeed, and I would like to see the story told.

Please don't bother to do anything with the above material yet. Let me get it to you this coming week in an orderly fashion, with notes and explanations.

>> The excerpt from Maurer is at http://www.cbi-history.com/part_ic.html#500.

Some of that material is wrong. Or let's just say that it could better. I's a good start.

>> There's also a good story on the 1st at
>> http://rb-29.net/HTML/74Humbystory.html/00.50Humby.htm.

I was fortunate enought to meet Ralph Kelsey before he passed away. I have very accurate crew and position lists for the Humby aircraft.... nice supplement to what you have.

While you have some time, go to this page and find the section entitled "Look what we found!" Notice that the picture is of the Coe crew of 1st PRS, Flight "C". http://www.physicstoday.org/pt/vol-54/iss-8/p40.html I met Alex Green as well, and have had an ongoing correspondence with him. I have action reports from the Hornet for the action that resulted from this flight as well as a number of pictures of sunken ships taken by my father in October of 1945. I think it would be nice to work up a page on this since Flight "C" was put up for and apparently never got combat credit.

>> If you have any history/lineage info that you can share to improve the info I have on
>> my site, I'd appreciate hearing from you.

You got it. I am on vacation this coming week, and just did a large amount of work on all of this. More to go. The good news is that I have substantially completed the CBI portion of 1st PRS history...

I'll feed material to you this coming week... Thanks for the contact... I've been meaning to send you email.

Where did you get the February Special Orders relieving the F-13A crews from duty under the XX Bomber Command Photo Recon Detachment and transferring them to the 1st PRS Flight
"C"?

I am developing material on the Photo Recon Detachment as well. I think you are going to want to add this material either to the 1st PRS page or create another page. My research is not done, but I do have partial crew lists as well as all of the planes that participated. Interesting stuff...

Thanks again.

Shane




Proud son of Sgt. Robert W. Anderson
1st Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron (Detached)
316th Bomb Wing, 8th Air Force
Kadena, Okinawa 1945-1946
---
492nd Bombardment Squadron
7th Bomb Group/Wing, 8th Air Force/SAC
Carswell AFB 1950-1954
garyg
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RE: 7th Photo Recon Group 2007/08/10 10:49:48 (permalink)
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Hi Shane,
 
Glad you had already found my site.  I will look at the links you cited and absorb that info.  I'm impressed w/ the extent of your research, and I look forward to gaining more info from you on the 1st PRS!   
 
The guesses you have on the sequence of events makes sense, given the info I have from Maurer (granted, not perfect, but better than nothing!).  I look forward to seeing what you have on this.
 
The copies of the orders and the tail #s / crew info came from Mr. Robert Herman, who was in the 1st.  I can put you in touch w/ him if you wish.  There were some other papers he sent me electronically, and I'd be glad to send those along if you wish.  Send me an email when you can!
 
Gotta get back to work, so this is short.  I look forward to more on this, and thanx!
 
Gary
 
 
 
 
shane
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RE: 7th Photo Recon Group 2007/08/10 13:05:22 (permalink)
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Gary:

>> Mr. Robert Herman, who was in the 1st.  

Sure, I would appreciate that very much...   so that would be...

Robert W. Herman - 2nd. Lt. - Eng - ASN 0-572007, Flight Engineer on Paul Gremmler's crew,  Aircraft tail number 42-24567.

I am in contact with John A. McGlohon - T/sgt - Photographer from that crew.  I would love to contact Mr. Herman if he is amenable.

Do me a favor...

I have enabled email option on my profile.  If you don't mind, can you click on it, send me an email with your best return email address, and I'll make sure to reply so that we can continue this via email.

Again, thanks!

Shane

Proud son of Sgt. Robert W. Anderson
1st Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron (Detached)
316th Bomb Wing, 8th Air Force
Kadena, Okinawa 1945-1946
---
492nd Bombardment Squadron
7th Bomb Group/Wing, 8th Air Force/SAC
Carswell AFB 1950-1954
garyg
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RE: 7th Photo Recon Group 2007/08/10 14:49:59 (permalink)
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Shane,
 
Done.  I will send you the contact info for Mr. Herman when I get home tonite.
 
Gary
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