Hello,
my name is Rudolf Hermanns. My father used to be a wireless operator/rear gunner on a Me 410.
I am looking on his behalf for information on these three B-17s shot down above Bosnia/Yugoslavia around noon (?) on 14 June 1944 through his squadron (2./ZG 76).
 





6093 MACR

 6/14/1944

 B-17

 42-38105

 463rd BG

 775


6094 MACR

 6/14/1944

 B-17

 42-31770

 463rd BG

 777


6102 MACR

 6/14/1944

 B-17

 42-31845

 463rd BG

 775
 
source: http://www.armyairforces.com/dbmacr-date.asp
 
Any information available. eyewitnesses? Photos of the planes?
Thanks in advance.
Yours sincerely
Rudolf J M Hermanns

Rudolf-
You can Request Free Copies of MACRs - Offer to Pay Postage -
from Ms. Lynn Gamma at AAF Archives.
These will have Information you seek.
Email -   lynn.gamma@maxwell.af.mil
Also - Check this Forum - many Luftwaffe Experten
http://forum12oclockhigh.net
Luftwaffe / Axis Forum
Mike

Rudolph....Dick Drain's 5th Wing History Of Aircraft Assigned shows the following :

42-38105        THE CLUB 105   775 BS    Original aircraft. MIA Budapest 14 Jun 44. Collision with 42-42-31845.
                                                               (MACR 6093)

42-31845        No Name           775 BS    Original Aircraft  MIA Budapest 14 Jun 44. Collision with 42-38105.
                                                               (MACR 6102)   

42-31770       THE SKY LARK     773 BS    Original Aircraft  MIA Munich  13 Jun 44  Damaged by flak,crashed
                                                               near Brod.  (MACR 6094)

Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Dear Jim,
thank you very much for your quick answer.
Obviously you are most probably the same age like my father. He is by now in his 86th year, mentally absolutely fit, physically he needs a walking stick.
If you can spare a few minutes, I am going to tell you why I have put forward the inquiry about the 14 June 1944.
A German source contains the following pieces of information about B-17s shot down around noon over Bosnia on 14 June 1944
14.06.1944    Oblt. Schalkner       2./ZG 76         B-17        Banja Luka:        6.500 m. (Bosnia)      12.05
14.06.1944    Lt. Reich                 2./ZG 76         B-17        Banja Luka:        6.500 m. (Bosnia)      12.05
Lt. Reich was my father's pilot. They had just changed to a Messerschmidt 410.
14.06.1944    Uffz. Swoboda        2./ZG 76         B-17        Banja Luka:        6.500 m. (Bosnia)      12.05
I looking for information which BG or BS was involved and what actually happened to the planes and especially to the crews. I have got a list of all B-17s shot down on 14 June 1944.
 





5793

 

440614

B-17

42-107163

92

407

Long


5794

 

440614

B-17

42-31681

95

412

Wells


5796

 

440614

B-17

42-97066

351

508

Dixey


5797

 

440614

B-17

42-97798

351

510

Williamson Jr


5798

 

440614

B-17

42-102478

351

510

Cesarini


5800

 

440614

B-17

42-97188

384

544

Summerville


5801

 

440614

B-17

42-37843

401

615

Schroeder


5804

 

440614

B-17

42-97579

457

750

Allen


5805

 

440614

B-17

42-102464

457

750

Blackwell


5904

 

440614

B-17

42-31568

457

748

Rogers


5905

 

440614

B-17

42-31618

457

748

Lapaze


5906

 

440614

B-17

42-97062

457

749

Johnson


6015

 

440614

B-17

42-31527

2

429

 


6093

 

440614

B-17

42-38105

463

775

 


6094

 

440614

B-17

42-31770

463

777

 


6102

 

440614

B-17

42-31845

463

775

 
 
Can you help me to find the planes and crews?
Yours
Rudolf Hermanns
 

Welcome to the site Rudolph.  I wonder could tell us how many missions your father flew while in ZG 76 both in Bf 110G-2 and Me 410A ?  I see his crew was successful this date, Did your father take part in any more victories while in the Viermottötter gruppe ?  As well do you have the German LW side of the mission for the June operation ?............ I am most interested.

Greetings

Erich ~

Nur die jenigen, die man vergisst, sind wirklich tot

Dear Mike,
Thanks for your quick answer.
I wasn't aware of the possibility of getting MACRs for free.
I will contact Lynn Gamma and see what she can do about the 14 June 1944.
Thanks again.
yours
Rudolf

Dear Erich,
thank you very much for your answer.
Will see what I can do for you.
The main problem is that not much of the reports on the German LW side has survived the end of WWII.
 
My father's "career" ended at the end of July, the beginning of August. ZG 76 was dissolved and the pilots joined other JG whereas the wireless operators were trained to fly the He 162 but never did because they were sent as paratroopers (!) to the Russian front in winter 1944/1945.
 
I will see what I can do.
Yours
Rudolf
 
 

Lieber Rudolf many thanks for the reply.  your father looks to have quite a career in the war.  You are quite correct none of the ZG's that fought against the US Viermots have really had much coverage.  what we have are the lloses from Freiburg and a few notes on victories.  I do know that some of ZG 76 pilots formed the cadre for the single engine JG 76 flying home defence missions in Bf 109G's, and was wondering if your father went over to the pilot status but your remarks mention he went over to the Fallshirm units.  And it appears from what I can find your fathers pilot in the Me 410 had two "kills" while flying the Me 410 from what my data shows.

please contact me here with further information if you would, as I am very interested in his career.

e-mail:    njagd@charter.net

Gruß

Erich ~

Nur die jenigen, die man vergisst, sind wirklich tot

Hi Rudolf and Erich,

I have send an email to Rudolf (did you receive it?). But I would be definitelly interested in the same as Erich (Erich you knwo about my project and research of Me 410 and ZG 76). I would appreciate and warmly welcome any data and help. THANKS to both!!!

Peter Kassak
pkassak(AT)yahoo.com

Dear Peter,
did not receive your email!
Hear my address again: rjmhermanns@aol.com
Where about do you live on this planet?
Yours
Rudolf

Hallo Rudolph and Peter.

sometime ago you were looking for information on the P-51 pilot of the 354th fg that shot down your fathers Bf 110G-2.  did you get any help and do you have the 354th fg representative name and adresse for your search ?  I have it........

Erich ~

Nur die jenigen, die man vergisst, sind wirklich tot

Dear Erich,
I have got two names
- Emmer and
- Hunt.
Emmer got a complete victory, Hunt just got 1/2 a victory. I have got the name of the second pilot gaining the second halve somewhere in my files.
Both do not live  anymore - to my knowledge. Emmer died as POW in Germany. Hunt was shot down.
 
My father remembers that they were only attacked by a SINGLE P-51 around noon. One of their engines caught fire and he bailed out first then his "Flugzeugführer". They both landed safely, my father hitting the roof of a pub, sliding down and finding himself "deposited" on top of the manure heap in the pub's yard.
 
Erich my personal email address: rjmhermanns@aol.com
 
Yours
Rudolf

Hi both:)

It could not be 354FG as it was 8AF unit...you have to search for 15USAAF units..52. and 31.FG claimed Me 310, which wre in fact for sure Me 410s of ZG 76...unit lost 6 planes...3 due to enemy action.
best regards

Peter Kassak
pkassak(AT)yahoo.com