Seeking info on John L. Touchett, 0-718495 KIA in a mid-air collision on 22 Oct 1944 aboard A/C 43-38030 or 43-38133.
       The accident ocurred over the 306th BG airfield at Thurliegh. The falling debris damaged two of their A/C on the ground.     According to the 306th :
       Two groups of the 305th BG were coming together at a 45 degree angle and the top group was told to go up and the lower group to come down. One of the lower group instead of dropping down went up and collided with the other aircraft which was going up. Both aircraft exploded in the collision.
       I cannot work out why the two groups would be on such a different flight path. Do you have a mission report for the 22 Oct 44 mission and a crew list of who was in each A/C ? Any info you have would be most welcome. Regards, Marc

Hello Marc
 
I received a PM message from I beleive a colleague of yours Chris Argent? He asked what info I could offer on this.
 
Well on initial checking, can share following. This is taken from research and letter exchanges done by my co- 305th associate Billy Donald. He received a letter from a crewman flying that same day, in the formation in which the incident occured. Mission was to Hannover, a Tank factory NW of that City. The mission went well, but upon return, the weather had closed in badly over southern England, cloud base down to just a few thousand feet.
 
The 305th were trying to let down over Chelveston and as they made an approach, over the neighbouring Thurleigh field, some of the formation became aware of aircraft, witnessed as dim shapes ahead, and on what appeared to be a converging course from ahead....
 
The aircraft which caused the first impact was that of Lt John Micheal, 364th Sqn, aboard 43-38133 WF-E. Micheal's plane was seen to try and avoid a collision by turning away in a steep banking manouver. This came too late and an on coming B-17 (number 43-38030 JJ-E 'My Achin' B')) was witnessed to clipp a large section of the left wing of 133 off. This and other large pieces of debris caused chaos throughout the remaining formation, with aircraft desperately trying duck and weave, and still maintain some kind of safe order in such poor visibility.
 
It is said, allegedly, that the 364th Pilot was recently arrived, and had only flown a few missions as 1st Pilot, having taken his very first missions as a Copilot on other more experienced crews.
 
Both planes were seen to drop to the ground above or very close to Thurleigh base.
 
The question of why the mistake isnt clearly answered from what was discovered through recent researching. I make a personal guess in that the weather was terrible that day, and must have played a major part. It would appear, and again its only a guess, that the 305th knew they were pretty close to home, and had began to loosen up their formation, i.e. High, Lead and Low elements. Somehow, perhaps, the 422nd's planes as one of those elements had approached the area at a differing course to that of the planes of the 364th.
 
Unless a crash-incident report can be found, it is purely a guess.
 
Crews names have been asked for by Chris, and I'm guessing you would like confirmation.
 
A/C 43-38030 'My Achin' B' JJ-E 422nd Sqn
P Phil Lichty
CP Rob Coverstone
N John Touchet
B Mike J Verra
ENG Albert B. Zieglmeir
R Harold Boling
BT Nick Colrivta
WG Ersel E. Lennier
TG William R. Robinson
 
A/C 43-38133 WF-E 364th Sqn
P John Micheal
CP William E Shoemaker
N Fred Watkins Jr
B Phil R. Mifsud
ENG Billy F Krug
RAD Ashton W Hewitt
BT Eldon D Peacock
WG Burton G Jenkins
TG Lenoard B Lindsey
 
In the PM from Chris, he mentioned a colleague's wife being related to Touchet, and thought he had been a Pilot. Well, from the records and work done by Billy Donald, it would seem John Touchet was Navigator on that crew.
 
As a final teaser ...(!) there is a one in a million photo, taken by someone on the ground, a 306th guy, of the incident. Shows B-17's emerging out of that very low cloud-mist, and parts of two B-17's 9some of it on fire) descending to the ground. I do have a copy here, will attempt to dig it out from the many boes I have here..... and post it for you to see.
 
Hope this small additional info helps you in your quest
 
Regards Ian W

Ian White - 305th BGMA Hon. Life Associate, UK Contact and Organiser of next years 40th Combat Wing UK Reunion - May 21st-31st 2009

Deepest apologies!! I made a huge blunder in typing Pilot's name on the 364th aircraft involved. It is not John Micheal - but JOHN MITCHELL
 
(Ive been typing all afternoon and several letters, bizarrely were to three people all with the surname Micheal...!!!) Kinda makes you brain dead....
 
Ian

Ian White - 305th BGMA Hon. Life Associate, UK Contact and Organiser of next years 40th Combat Wing UK Reunion - May 21st-31st 2009

       Ian, a sincere thanks for your time and effort. As a 94th BG researcher, I find investigating "friendly" KIA accidents the least rewarding, yet the facts need to be known. I have found them to be the culmination of many little things going wrong that add up to tragedy. There is no one to lay blame on, as everyone was doing the best they could under difficult circumstances. Sadly, some like to point fingers. Such was the case with a 94th BG bombing from above of "Donna Mae" over Berlin which made the cover of Life magazine.
       Chris, (your neighbor there in England), Louis, and I do the 94th research. I do mostly crews and mission reports which deal with hundreds of names, service numbers, etc., and I know very well how names get mixed up. Even the records have the names wrong at times.
       If I can be of any help to you, do not hesitate to ask. I will keep you advised as to any additional info I uncover.
                                                                Best regards, Marc

I was on the mission on Oct. 22,1944, and while my memory is pretty vague about things that happened on specific dates, I do remember flying around in the soup with the bombardier flashing an aldis lamp through the nose window while I kept an eye out for other planes. It was very hairy because the visibility was nil and the entire group was trying to get on the ground without getting killed in the process. Its a miracle that there weren't more collisions considering all the groups trying to land. For some  reason, we weren't diverted as sometimes happened but I guess all of southern England was socked in.
dugspen

       Dugspen, Sir, you guys had nerves of steel to fly in that soup. Following is a 94th pilots take off procedure for taking off in fog. Flying formation with such low visibility had to be hair raising indeed.
        When I was flying, it was summer time - a time when ground fog is an early morning regular event.  We got a wake-up call around 4:00 AM, the fog had already settled in.  At times it was so thick we couldn't ride bikes to the mess hall - only way was to follow the foot path with a flashlight.  To get the airplane out to the runway for takeoff, we followed a jeep with a guy in the back seat shining a strong light up to the cockpit.  When the plane was squared off on the runway, gyro compass set for 0°, got the signal from the tower to "go" - it was full throttle, eyes glued to the compass, co-pilot reading the air speed, when it got to 110 mph, time to pull back and lift-off and hope to God you would miss the farm house near the end of the runway.  Straight ahead, co-pilot reading rate of climb and airspeed, eyes still on the gyro compass - at about 1500 feet burst into the clear - sun shining - what a relief!
       On October 20 thru 24th, the 94th BG curtailed air operations due to constant rain, low clouds and lingering fog. The loss of twelve aircraft and several with major damage in three days may have also been a contributing factor.
       Thank you for your service. May we not forget your sacrifices. Regards, Marc

       Ian, these are the crew lists which Chris A. in England came up with:
 
 

[image]local://upfiles/12806/8B7FAEC11851494EA4C1C71DDB547458.jpg[/image]

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Attachment number two.
 

 

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       There is a 16 page accident report which I am ordering. Hope this photo posts OK. Marc
 
 

[image]local://upfiles/12806/740620D6719849728966998CED240520.jpg[/image]

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Hi Marc.
 
You have the picture, or at least one photograph of what may now be several taken in quick succession. I havent as yet found my copy, but think from memory that is of a slightly different view and content (same event but may be a frame or two earlier in a sequence).
 
Congratulations in sourcing an accident report. Will hopefully answer the questions you wish to clarify.
 
Regards Ian

Ian White - 305th BGMA Hon. Life Associate, UK Contact and Organiser of next years 40th Combat Wing UK Reunion - May 21st-31st 2009

Hello All,
 
I found the same photograph at the Archives in Washington DC.  The photo says the following:
Dated Oct 22, 1944.  Two aircraft that collided were 43-38133, WF-N and 43-38030, JJ-E, My Achin B.  On board My Achin B was pilot Phil A. Lichty, Co-Pilot Robert Coverstone, Navigator John L. Touchett, Bombardier Michael J. Verra, Radio - Harold E. Boling, Engineer Albert B. Zieglmeir, BT - Nich Colriuta, WG - Ersel E. Lennier, TG - William R. Robinson.  Plane 43-38133 - Pilot John Michael, Co-Pilot William E. Shoemaker, Navigator Fred Walkins, Bombardier Phillip R. Mifsud, Engineer Billy F. Krug, Radio Ashton W. Hewitt, BT - Eldon D. Peacock, WG - Burton G. Jenkins, TG - Leonard B. Lindsey.  All crew members were killed. 
 
Best of luck
 
-Chris

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Hi all...
Returning to this past posting, I have the following information. It may help explain a little of the circumstances of this event.
 
Extracted from our own CAN DO notes newsletter,  Volume 07 no.3 – written/submitted by Walter Douglas, 364th Squadron Pilot.
 
Walt recalled being part of this very same incident, a witness to the collision over Thurleigh. It reads, I quote:-
 
Another time we were returning from a mission in formation at about 100 to 150 feet (NB. This comment may be incorrect, as the photographs of the time show the planes more probably higher, at around 1,000-1,500ft) in a foggy haze. An aircraft blew a tire on landing blocking the runway. So all aircraft were circling except our Squadron. We were still heading for the airfield when a B-17 appeared in front of us. We barely missed it. Then two B-17’s hit head on to our left. Some aircraft were forced to dive and touch tree tops. I decided to land at the base that was under us even though our base was about a mile away. (NB. Walt’s comments lead to only one conclusion that he landed at Thurleigh, rather than continue on in the fog and attempt to reach Chelveston.) I just figured it would be best to get on the ground. Parts of the two B-17’s were scattered along the runway along with bodies of the crews.     I called my base from here and advised them that I was getting married the next day in London and to send us some transportation. So we left our aircraft at the base and went back by truck. I got married the next day to an English girl that I had met on my first tour to England. We had been engaged all of the time that I went through cadet training in the States. At the time, I had completed about 15 missions.
 
Unquote.
 
From the above statement and his personal memory it seems likely that the initial cause to the events of that day, and the catalyst on the stalled arrival of the 305th BG as they tried to locate then land at home field, was not only due to poor visibility (fog), but also the fact that the runway in use at Station 105 had an aircraft blocking its path, due to a blown tire. It may also be the case that Douglas and his crew were not the only 305th BG crew to have landed at Thurleigh, in such circumstances its likely other aircraft chose to also landed there, due to the impossible weather conditions.
 
I have a vague Idea I have read a second memory-account from another one of our veterans, and I'm attempting to track it down, and post it here.
 
Ian W 

Ian White - 305th BGMA Hon. Life Associate, UK Contact and Organiser of next years 40th Combat Wing UK Reunion - May 21st-31st 2009

    Ian, thank you much for that info. It fits right in with bits and pieces I have been able to scrape up here and there. I'm awaiting info from the 306th at Thurleigh as to how many 305th A/C landed there according to their records. The 94th stood down on 22 Oct 44 so their field at Bury St. Edmunds would have been open for A/C from other groups to land if necessary. Sadly, our records for the 94th are incomplete.
    On another front, the 94th had an aircraft named "Li'l Butch" but it was assigned to the 94th on 13 June 43, went down on 5 Jan 1944 and never left the 94th. Serial number 42-30112 GL-Z.
    Chris Argent (CA on this site) who lives in Bury St. Edmunds may be able to help you out with some of your unknown A/C in the 305th. Best Regards, Marc

A few photos of the crash.

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Another photo showing the crash site and a couple of bodies - war is sad.

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Last of the photos I have found - I am sure there are more.

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Hello Chris.
Wonderful pictures, an amazing find and thanks for posting them. On the second one you can make out either the perimeter track, or part of the runway? This ties in with the comments made by one of or crews landing at Thurleigh due to the poor eather and seeing debris and bodies on the ground as they rolled out from landing and headed to park. Its striking too seeing the weather at ground level being so clear, quite a marked change from the shots of the frmation emerging from a very gloomy mist laiden sky just prior to the coming together of the two B-17's.

I agree war is a terrible thing and seeing its results, especially lifeless bodies upon the ground isnt a good one. Reminds me of the incident over Newton Bromswold (Wolfess and Shennandoha). There is a series of shots taken as the ground personel arrived on scene. Several of bodies in a state not printable on a public site. Indeed such photos will not be released by ourselves, for reasons of good taste and more so respect for the families that survive.

Thanks again for adding to this thread.
Ian

Ian White - 305th BGMA Hon. Life Associate, UK Contact and Organiser of next years 40th Combat Wing UK Reunion - May 21st-31st 2009

       Chris, thanks so much for the photos. Where in the world did you locate them ? You are much better than I at locating photos. Sorry for the delay in responding as I have been busy with the 94th BG and put Lt. Touchett on the back burner for awhile. So much to do and so little time of late.
       My dad was a 94th BG, 410th Sq. original C/P and then pilot and they flew their first six missions attached to the 306th at Thurleigh. It is sadly ironic  that my wife's uncle would perish over Thurleigh. If you should need any info on the 94th BG, please contact me. Thanks again for the photos and God Bless, Marc