Hello,
 
On the 17th October 1944 the 464th BG lost the following a/c.
 
44-41070
41-29441
42-251663
42-51964
 
From the ABMC site Icould only find listed as killed.
1Lt. Jack Abrams - 777BS
2Lt. Robert Cunningham - 778BS
2Lt. Edward J. Degnan - 779BS
Sgt. Frank K. Fenley - 779BS
Sgt. Harold A. Johnson - 779BS
Sgt. Glen T. Swartz - 779BS
 
While from the NARA POW list I could only find the following named as POW's.
T/Sgt. William R. Terry
S/Sgt. David M. Sheffler
Cpl. Frank R. Pierce jr
2Lt. Horace H. Lund
T/Sgt. John R. Lonsdorf
2Lt. John W. Lindsay
S/Sgt. John Krogstadt
S/Sgt. James T. Hutchinson
S/Sgt. Raymond L. Hadden
Sgt. Benjamin Delson
1Lt. Albert N. Danoff
Sgt. Kenneth D. Collum
T/Sgt. Lyndle K. Clark
S/Sgt. John G. Barbarich
S/Sgt. John W. Woods
2Lt. Richard J. Witt
1Lt. Don J. Weir
1Lt. Donald K. Waldron
 
Who were and what became of the rest of these four aircrews ?
Thanks
Alex

Alex,

I am having trouble with my adobe or I would have looked them each up individually myself.

The MACRs for the 464th are all available online at the following link thanks to Bob Hoskinson.
The MACR's should give names and dispositions for the remaining crew members.

The 464 Bomb Group website:
http://www.zplace2b.com/464th/index.htm

Hope this helps, Chuck

Grandson of SSgt Leonard D Tygart
15AF/55BW/464BG/777BS
POW Stalag Luft IV/Forced March

hello Chuck,

Thanks for the info on the 464th's MACR's

This is news to me, thank you.

I will search it out right now.

Thanks
Alex

Hello Chuck,

I have looked at the MACR's for the above four a/c lost on the 17th October 1944, and have total airmen of 41.
18 became POW; 14 were killed; 9 returned.
BUT these four names on the 779th list in ABMC are not amongst the crews, so must have been crew in other a/c that day.
They are -
2Lt. Edward J. Degnan
S/Sgt. Frank K. Fenley
Sgt. Harold A. Johnson
Sgt. Glen T. Swartz.

Anyone know which a/c they were crews in ?

Thanks
Alex

Alex,

I looked through my copy of "The 464th Bomb Group in WWII" by Hill/Karle.

There were certainly other KIA on that mission but the book does not help answer your question. The other KIA included an entire crew that crashed near the airfield in Black H (42-50736). Black was the color for the 779 so that is a possibility but there should be 10 KIA from that plane, not 4, as there were no survivors.

Also, the plane "Green Hornet" brought back a dead tail gunner, Cpl Richard Ross. Green Hornet's s/n and squadron are not listed.
Also another unnamed plane brought back a dead bombardier. Besides these casualties, the book lists 2 crewman with serious wounds from flak and 3 with minor wounds.

This doesn't answer your question but is what is available in the book.

All the best, Chuck

Grandson of SSgt Leonard D Tygart
15AF/55BW/464BG/777BS
POW Stalag Luft IV/Forced March

Hello Chuck,

Thank you for your reply, it helps clear up the "extra" men.

I expect that they are crew of "50736" as all four are listed as 779BS. It is possible that the others from the crew were at some time returned to the US.
I understand that when this happens they are no longer recorded in the ABMC lists( Am I correct?).

As for the un-named bombardier it would be good to find which a/c he was from, and did the two seriously injured men survive ?

Thanks again for your help.
Alex

Hello Again Chuck,

I am a bit confused.

You say that Cpl Richard Ross may have been lost in "Green Hornet".

I looked in the website and see that "The Green Hornet" was downed on 12th June 44 a/c 42-52504.

So was there another "Green Hornet" with the Group later as we are looking at 17th October ?

Thanks
Alex

Alex,
I am new to the forum and would love to have information about my uncle Robert F. Cunnungham. I know some but get confused because he wasn't in a POW camp nor was he listed as dead in the crash. I have found where he is buried and know that my Grandmother would not agree to have his body brought back to the states. At this point, I'm not even sure there is a body in the cemetary. I promised my Mom that I would try to find out what I could about the mission and his death. My Grandparents destroyed most info and wold not allow anyone to speak of his death. I was born in '47 so have no remembrence of him. Anyone with info?? I have 1 older cousin who remembers him but we are the only ones left who are interested. Thanks, Alex
Pat Nagy St. Louis,MO

Pat,

Since you already know that 2Lt Robert F. Cunningham is buried at Ardennes Cemetery and the location of the grave, you might not be aware that you can contact the Cemetery and probably get a picture of the headstone. You might be interested in going to the Cemetery some day and can get a discount on your passport. The Cemetery is immaculately kept, as are all our foreign Cemeteries, and is a fitting place for our heroes to rest among their comrades. My brother is buried in Ardennes and it was a very emotional time when I was able to visit there for the Memorial Day service in 2006. The people of Belgium are very appreciative of their freedom and the efforts of our fallen to give it back to them.

There should be a MACR available on www.footnote.com that will give you information about the mission and the crew. I believe that you can download these MACRs during the month of December at no charge. I haven't tried this but have seen it mentioned on the forum several times recently. Others may be able to give you more information.

Vic

Vic Walzel, brother of 1st Lt Leland H. Walzel, bombardier with the 93rd Bomb Group, 330th Squadron. KIA 6 March 1944 on his 25th mission.
www.lelandwalzel.150m.com

From ABMC:
 

Robert F. Cunningham

Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army Air Forces

Service # O-717756

778th Bomber Squadron, 464th Bomber Group, Heavy

Entered the Service from: Missouri
Died: 17-Oct-44
Buried at: Plot C Row 8 Grave 37
Ardennes American Cemetery
Neupre, Belgium Awards: Air Medal, Purple Heart
Phil

Phil in Ixelles, Belgium

Hello all!
I'm Pat's daughter. Robert F. Cunningham is my great uncle.
Here's our big puzzle/question: 8 men bailed out of the ship. The two men left in the ship were killed: the pilot and the gunner. Robert Cunningham was one of the men who bailed out. Witnesses saw 8 parachutes. 7 of the men who bailed out eventually went to POW camps. Robert Cunningham was not a POW. The big question is: What happened to Cunningham after he bailed out?
Any possible leads would be helpful.
Thanks for all the great information!
Julie Nagy
St. Louis, MO

Julie,
You need to ask NARA for Cunningham's IDPF (Identification of Deceased Person File) and may be you'll learn about the circumstances of his death.
 
Phil

Phil in Ixelles, Belgium

Julie & Pat,

Phil is right in that his DPF should help clear up the mystery.  If there were no remains, he would be on the wall of the missing and not have a grave.  The DPF should give a place, date and cause of death.  It might even give an exact location with coordinates from a WWII issue map.  I have a contact that might be able to help you with that if he has a copy of the map used.  For now, take the witness reports with a grain of salt.  With my great uncle's plane, the mission report says there were two chutes while the MACR says there were none.  In reality there was only one.  Good luck, and let us know what you find out!

-Ryan